---

Criminal Justice and Immigration Bill

I rise to support those remarks and to make three brief points. First, there is a danger in our debates of pulling apart the welfare of the child and the needs of the community. If we need a theme it is to bring those two things together. When we are serving the needs and welfare of children, we are serving the needs of society, the community and victims. When we are attending to the needs of victims and society, we should properly be attending to the welfare of children. If we can hold those things together we will get it right. Secondly, public policy needs to be consistent. When local authorities take children into care, the one thing they seek to avoid, if possible, is putting them into residential units, which is a last resort solution for children. We have the needs of the child in mind and our experience of such homes in the past means that we are very cautious about that solution. Thirdly—this has not been said in the debate—if it is necessary within those principles to take children into custody, such must be the conduct that that too serves the interests of children and their welfare. There is a danger of saying, ““We don’t know what to do with this hard core of children and young people who we can’t cope with in society, so we must put them in custody””. The noble Earl, Lord Listowel, reminded us earlier of 60 young people with three staff looking after them. That is 60 too many in custody. The style and content of what we are seeking to achieve for children who are held in custody is part of this issue.