---

Pensions Bill

Some of the issues under discussion are complex and important, so I am afraid that it will take me some time to go through them. On the start date, our intention has always been that the reports should be introduced in 2012. That has not changed, but, quite naturally, Tim Jones wanted to assure himself that the plans that he inherited as chief executive were deliverable. He has now completed his review. I am afraid that it was not the sort of hefty report that the hon. Member for Eastbourne (Mr. Waterson) may expect, but Tim Jones met me and produced his report bang on time. He now has a credible set of plans that are consistent with starting to deliver the scheme from 2012. If the Liberal Democrat spokesmen—both the hon. Member for Rochdale (Paul Rowen) and the hon. Member for Inverness, Nairn, Badenoch and Strathspey (Danny Alexander)—want to meet Tim Jones, he would be delighted to do so. The hon. Member for Eastbourne is probably aware that the hon. Member for Wantage (Mr. Vaizey) has already met Tim Jones to discuss some of the cost issues and some other issues, including those of commercial confidentiality as contracts of a substantial value will be offered to set up the scheme. It is therefore important that the scheme's commercial confidentiality, and therefore its viability, is maintained. For that reason, with due undertakings from the hon. Members concerned, I am sure that Tim Jones will be able to discuss some of the issues in detail, provided that that detail does not cross into the public arena, where it might prejudice the various contracts. We are still four years away from the go-live date for a complex programme that delivers ground-breaking reforms. It would be ludicrous to stand here and say that there are not uncertainties, risks or events around the corner that might change how we see things. We must not lose sight of the fact that it is not just Tim Jones, the Pensions Regulator and the Government who need to deliver to make some of the reforms a success. For instance, the date for Royal Assent for the Bill is, to use a Donald Rumsfeldism, an example of a ““known unknown””. We do not know when the Bill might be delivered. We have made good time in scrutinising it in Committee, but I cannot be sure, even with the best will of the House, of the exact date of Royal Assent. That means that I cannot be sure of the exact date that PADA will get the legal authority that it needs to begin to implement the personal accounts scheme. I anticipate that that will not have much impact on the delivery of the IT or the systems supporting the personal accounts scheme, but we will need to understand the impact on a range of supporting activity, including when we can deliver the information needed by employers and pension schemes so that they have time to prepare. There are other unavoidable uncertainties, to use a different phrase. The pension accounts scheme will be unlike any other scheme in that it will be the largest occupational scheme in the UK, with 4 million to 7 million active members, and it will interact with nearly 1 million employers. It will be specifically targeted at a part of the market that, by and large, existing providers find uneconomic to serve. No other scheme has restrictions like a contributions cap, and it will be required to admit anyone eligible to join, irrespective of whether the revenue that they might bring in will cover the cost of their account. So although some of the infrastructure needed will already exist in the market, some of it will need to be developed. We have made assumptions about how long the procurement and build processes will take, and they are good and robust assumptions, but we will not know exactly what is involved until PADA has engaged with potential private sector suppliers and found out what they can do and how they will deliver what we need. We must also build into our plans the needs of employers, the pensions industry and individuals to ensure that they understand the reforms and can take the necessary steps to be ready for go-live. We have already said that we will bring employers into the reforms in stages and phase in the rate of contributions that they are required to make. We will need to get those aspects of implementation right and ensure that the right employers have the right information at the right time to meet their new duties. We need to avoid a big bang implementation so that the pensions industry, including the personal accounts scheme, and the supporting infrastructure such as advice services for employers and individuals can take on their new roles and responsibilities in a measured and controlled way. It would be wrong for me to predict exactly what will happen on an exact date in 2012, but I am confident that that is a realistic start date for the reforms, providing that we get the staging and implementation right. That has been the basis of my conversations with Tim Jones, and I am happy for the hon. Member for Eastbourne to have conversations with him about his plans and the outcome of his review. As I understand it, much of that review is on charts and so on, so there is paperwork. If the hon. Gentleman wishes, he can look at the charts, which show the timing involved and various other things—I had a glance at them, but I rely more on the discussions with Tim Jones than on all those charts, which he drew up for his own purposes.