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House of Lords Reform

First, may I thank the Secretary of State for the statement and for the work on the White Paper? I pay tribute to his commitment to making sure that we move forward together, as far as is possible. Through him, I thank his private office for its assistance, and his officials, who have been extremely helpful. Does he agree that the reality is that there is a coalition of the committed, who are determined that we shall see reform? The process started in 1911—I nearly said, ““as you know, Mr. Speaker.”” I did not mean that; I mean, ““as we all know.”” It would be nonsense if the process were not completed by 2011. The question that the House has to address is not whether, but when, we have a properly democratic second Chamber of the United Kingdom Parliament. That is the issue, and not anything else. The Secretary of State heard my colleagues and I make a commitment in the talks and on behalf of our party. We will repeat that commitment in our next election manifesto: it is to make sure that all our MPs vote at the earliest opportunity in the next Parliament for just this sort of reform package. However, if people are to be elected to the second Chamber—it will be called ““the Senate””, I think—in thirds, for one term only, there is no justified argument that those elected with a party affiliation should not proportionately reflect the public's votes for the parties at the election. That argument is not about this place; we can have that at another time. It is an argument about proper representation down the corridor. Will the Secretary of State accept that, like the life peers, the hereditaries have known throughout their service in the House of Lords—many have served it well—that the time would come when their service would end? The only logical position is that all the hereditary peers should go at the beginning of the democratic process and that the life peers should go, at the latest, at the end of the three elections, probably by thirds over the period. In the White Paper, the Government express the preference that we have discussed: that the elections for the second Chamber should take place on the same day as the general election. However, does the Secretary of State agree that there is a strong case for our needing a fixed-term Parliament for the House of Commons and for there to be, at half-time intervals, elections for the second Chamber as well as for the devolved Administrations in Scotland, Wales, Northern Ireland and for any future devolved Administration in England? There has been a debate about the bishops. I hope that the Secretary of State accepts that many of us in the Church—not only the Anglican Church, but the Church generally—believe that the time has come for the Church of England not to be part of the establishment any more. The Church was not part of the establishment at the beginning and it was not intended to be so. Whether there are to be women bishops soon or not—I hope that there will be—the Church must, like anybody else, put its case for representation to the people. It is nonsense to protect one bit of the old House of Lords, but not any other. Lastly, does the Secretary of State agree with the point made by the hon. Member for Arundel and South Downs (Nick Herbert)? The proposals do not come instead of, but as well as, the reform and democratisation of the Commons. We need a stronger Parliament in this country if the British people are to think that their Governments, of whatever colour and composition, are to be held properly to account in future.