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Pensions Bill

I welcome the Minister's acceptance of Lords amendments Nos. 139 to 145. I certainly could not understand at the time why the Government could not commit themselves to using the word ““shall”” instead of ““may”” when it came to setting up a scheme. It would call into question what we had all been spending all this time doing if we were not going have a scheme in the end, so that is a sensible move by the Government. I also welcome the Government's acceptance of amendment No. 147, because in Committee we pressed for a review with a time frame. I am glad that that has been agreed. On amendment No. 150, we made it clear in Committee that conditions should be set down. However, unlike the Conservatives, we were not opposed to the Government making grants. Indeed, that has been done to enable the setting up of PADA, and we do not oppose it obtaining loans. The original wording in the Bill was that the Secretary of State may give financial assistance to the authority, which may or may not include interest. I am grateful that in the other place Lord McKenzie realised that PADA, as a public body, has a job to do in setting up a delivery authority before it hands over to a set of trustees. It will have to build up funds over several years. Therefore, it is proper that, if need be and subject to Treasury rules, it is given a loan to enable it to carry out that job. It is also proper that if that loan is to be repaid, it should be repaid under normal conditions for a public body. If the Minister wanted to transfer that arrangement to the trustees when the scheme was up and running, that would be a different matter, but given that PADA is a delivery authority, it is right and proper for the Government to be able to lend it money and for it to be paid back at normal public service rates. On that point, we disagree with the Conservatives and their amendment (a). PADA will be no different from the Post Office or other public body that carries out a public duty.