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Privileges Committee: First Report

My Lords, I shall talk briefly on this issue; I do not think this is an appropriate occasion for a long debate. I do not intend to focus at all on the contents of the two reports in so far as they deal with the facts. If we wish to have a plausible process in which we consider the disciplining of our Members, we can do it only on the basis that those who look in detail at the evidence are respected in relation to what they do. I have read both reports. The work done by the sub-committee is utterly unimpeachable. There were 18 hearings. It has heard the evidence and analysed it with great care, and we should leave it to make the conclusions. It would not be fair for us to deal with an analysis of the facts on the basis of a casual look ourselves. It must be clear that we are determining this on the basis of the facts, not on any basis to pander to public opinion. It must be our decision, based on the facts. I shall focus therefore only on the process. First, I believe that the advice given by my noble and learned friend Lady Scotland opened the door, quite rightly, to the possibility that there was a power to suspend. I believe it to be right that the body which decided whether or not to say that there was the power to suspend was the Committee for Privileges, which was greatly assisted by my noble and learned friend in doing that. I agree entirely with the memorandum put forward by the noble and learned Lord, Lord Mackay of Clashfern, who gets it precisely right. Secondly, I do not agree with the noble and learned Lord, Lord Lloyd of Berwick, who says that there is necessarily a clash between what my noble and learned friend Lady Scotland says and what the noble and learned Lord, Lord Mackay, says. It does not matter. We should support what the noble and learned Lord, Lord Mackay of Clashfern, says, because it seems to me to have a plausible disciplinary process. The idea that you cannot suspend is, with respect, not plausible. Thirdly, paragraphs 39 to 53 of the sub-committee’s report, which is published as an annex to the second report of the Committee for Privileges, give a totally clear and insightful account of our obligations in relation to paid advocacy. We should adopt them as a House because they make absolutely clear that there is no real doubt about what is across the line. For example, is there anyone in this House who cannot distinguish between the eminent doctor who speaks in this House and urges it to give more money for the National Health Service where she may be employed and will therefore benefit—about which we have no complaint—and a Member of this House who is willing to make speeches and try to persuade other Members to pursue a particular aim in legislation because they are paid? That is where the line is drawn and that is the point that my noble and learned friend Lord Irvine of Lairg makes clear. Do not be distracted by any arguments about the greyness of the line. The position was very clearly identified. The third and final point—