---

Knife Crime

The right hon. Gentleman is right that we need an informed debate. He will remember the debate on knife crime in this Chamber 12 months ago, in which we both took part. He said then that he felt that the debate was consensual, that there was common ground and that there were issues on which we had agreement across the House. We need to focus on those areas where we can seek agreement. At the same time, however, there will be differences. We will not shrink from being critical or from highlighting failures or those areas where the approaches taken are not effective. It will be important to have a constructive dialogue and debate about such matters. The right hon. Gentleman raised in his report the important point about how we need an informed and considered approach to the issues and about how, sadly, the knives out on the streets largely come from the kitchen. The previous focus was on knife amnesties—he will remember the almost annual pictures of the knives handed in to police stations—but they had the wrong emphasis, because the knives largely came from the kitchen drawer, as his report rightly highlighted. Indeed, that was also the feedback that we received from the police. We also need to focus on some of the implications of violent video games and DVDs and the factors that might lead somebody down the path of committing violent crime. That will become more challenging. One issue that I am focused on is the move from traditional media to the internet and what that may mean for the ability to regulate and give parents the right signposting about the material and information being used. That issue will become more complicated. The insights into the criminal justice system and the role of young offender institutions that my hon. Friend the Member for Woking (Mr. Malins) shared with us were very important. I am struck by the fact that some perverse incentives exist for local authorities, whereby it is almost cheaper for them to have someone in a youth offender institution than it is for them to make some of the interventions or do some of the practical work in the community that might stop a young person ending up in that situation. We need to focus clearly on that. I do not think that anyone in the Chamber can have failed to be moved by the comments that the hon. Member for Cleethorpes (Shona McIsaac) made about the appalling case of Claire Wilson, the 21-year-old mother-to-be who was stabbed to death, and about the impact that it has had on the community in the hon. Lady's constituency. I am sure that everyone in the House would wish to pass on their best wishes and respects to Miss Wilson's friends and family and to all those who have been directly affected by that appalling incident. Equally, the hon. Lady highlighted the fact that we must not lose sight of the good community work being done across the country. I pay tribute to those working in her constituency and to those, as we have heard, working in constituencies across the country. Sporting activity can be used as a way of engaging young people, albeit not simply by giving them something positive to do, but by being a catalyst to leverage in positive things such as education, self-respect and self-esteem, which can make a long-lasting difference. My hon. Friend the Member for Putney (Justine Greening) has had a long-standing interest in combating gangs and the postcode approach. Young people are being robbed on the street because of their possessions. She also made an important point about how the British crime survey has only belatedly taken the under-16s into account. The hon. Member for Hackney, North and Stoke Newington (Ms Abbott) made a powerful contribution about how we should not treat young people as an amorphous group. I had a discussion with about 200 young people that was organised by the YMCA. One young person posed this question to me: "If you saw a group of older people out on the street, would you describe them as a gang?" That young person was trying to articulate the fact that people are grouped too readily. We should look at young people as individuals and try to see the challenges and issues that they face, rather than trying to say that all young people are bad or writing people off. The points that the hon. Lady made were very powerful. I agree with my hon. Friend the Member for Preseli Pembrokeshire (Mr. Crabb) that we need a measured debate. Knife crime is not something that we should see as being confined simply to inner-city areas; rather, it is more wide ranging. I have read the Centre for Social Justice report in detail and have met colleagues as well.