Parliamentary Search

Opposition day on Tuesday, 9 June 2009, in the House of Commons, led by Lord Grayling. The answering member was Alan Johnson.

Knife Crime

Knife crime. Twelfth opposition day debate (part 1). Main question, as amended, put and agreed to on question.

Secondary information

Type
Parliamentary proceeding
Reference
493 c657-709 
Session
2008-09
Department
Home Office
Chamber / Committee
House of Commons chamber
Related items
Proceeding contributions
Speaker | 493 c688 (Link to this contribution) Order. I think that we are going into dangerous territory here. We cannot have a discussion about a ...
Humfrey Malins | 493 c685-6 (Link to this contribution) The consensual atmosphere of this debate comes through again, and the hon. Gentleman makes a valid p...
Show all contributions (132)
Martin Salter | 493 c685 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman mentioned Reading and touched on a particular cause of mine, which is the causal ...
Humfrey Malins | 493 c684-5 (Link to this contribution) Yes, and of course my hon. Friend may say that while the young man is in custody, he is not committi...
David TC Davies | 493 c684 (Link to this contribution) Perhaps I did not get the point across. It is obviously not costing the taxpayer that much, because ...
Paul Robert Holmes | 493 c686 (Link to this contribution) I am pleasantly surprised to say that I agree with every word that the hon. Gentleman says, given ou...
Humfrey Malins | 493 c686 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Lady makes a good point and I support what she says. Now I come to a revolutionary idea. I...
Shona McIsaac | 493 c686 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman makes some interesting points. In north-east Lincolnshire, some excellent work is...
Humfrey Malins | 493 c684 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend makes his own point. Given net and gross costs, maybe so, but I simply remark on the ...
David TC Davies | 493 c684 (Link to this contribution) Would my hon. Friend not acknowledge that the net cost to the taxpayer is considerably less than tha...
Humfrey Malins | 493 c683-4 (Link to this contribution) I congratulate my hon. Friend the Member for Epsom and Ewell (Chris Grayling) on the way in which he...
Keith Vaz | 493 c679-81 (Link to this contribution) Indeed. In my view, my right hon. Friend was a first-class Home Secretary, certainly as far as the ...
Keith Vaz | 493 c678-9 (Link to this contribution) I will certainly bear that in mind, Mr. Deputy Speaker, although I know that your request was not di...
Speaker | 493 c678 (Link to this contribution) Order. May I say to the House that as about seven hon. Members are seeking to catch my eye, that sug...
Chris Huhne | 493 c678 (Link to this contribution) I began my speech, as I hope the hon. Lady recognises, by citing the fact that there has been a fall...
Justine Greening | 493 c678 (Link to this contribution) I am interested in the hon. Gentleman's comment that so little is being done. Presumably he is aware...
Chris Huhne | 493 c677-8 (Link to this contribution) I very much agree with the hon. Lady and congratulate her on her excellent sound effects earlier in ...
Diane Abbott | 493 c677 (Link to this contribution) More than 25 years ago, I was a career civil servant in the prison department in the Home Office, wo...
Humfrey Malins | 493 c677 (Link to this contribution) I am following the hon. Gentleman's argument about reoffending, but in one way the situation is even...
Keith Vaz | 493 c682 (Link to this contribution) We certainly will return to this subject. We received evidence from young people—some as young as se...
Stephen Crabb | 493 c682 (Link to this contribution) I thank the right hon. Gentleman for giving way. His Committee's report is a very good and important...
Keith Vaz | 493 c683 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend is absolutely right, and I pay tribute to him because the Committee was initially kee...
Martin Salter | 493 c683 (Link to this contribution) It has been a pleasure to serve, with colleagues from both sides of the House, on the Select Committ...
Keith Vaz | 493 c682 (Link to this contribution) I am happy to agree with the hon. Gentleman, and I wish to express my gratitude to him for ensuring ...
Bob Russell | 493 c682 (Link to this contribution) May I put on record the fact that Mrs. Ann Oakes-Odger, whom the right hon. Gentleman mentioned, is ...
Keith Vaz | 493 c682 (Link to this contribution) Mr. Deputy Speaker, I am now nearing your 15-minute time limit on speeches so I shall conclude short...
Keith Vaz | 493 c681-2 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Lady is absolutely right about the problems that young people encounter when they are on th...
Justine Greening | 493 c681 (Link to this contribution) Is not another, perhaps longer-term, problem the fact that such people are growing up with the sense...
Alan Johnson | 493 c671 (Link to this contribution) That is a very important development. Around that time, after the first year of the tackling knives ...
Keith Vaz | 493 c671 (Link to this contribution) I am most grateful to the Home Secretary for giving way a second time. We in the Select Committee we...
Emily Thornberry | 493 c670 (Link to this contribution) I welcome my right hon. Friend to his new post. My area is one in which the action programme has bee...
Alan Johnson | 493 c670 (Link to this contribution) It is valuable to get that first-hand experience from one of the TKAP areas. I am sure that that exp...
Alan Johnson | 493 c669 (Link to this contribution) I am tempted to blame the Health Secretary for the present state of affairs. May I say how much I ap...
Emily Thornberry | 493 c670 (Link to this contribution) In Islington, if an area had particular problems, the police were given for a limited period but for...
Alan Johnson | 493 c670-1 (Link to this contribution) I do not like to intervene in the conversation about stop and search, Mr. Deputy Speaker. The Select...
Alan Johnson | 493 c670 (Link to this contribution) I acknowledge the special knowledge—the special constable knowledge, even—of the hon. Gentleman. I s...
Chris Huhne | 493 c676 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman assumes that if something does not work, it will begin to work if there is twice ...
David TC Davies | 493 c676 (Link to this contribution) I am sure that everyone is getting a sense of déjà vu at such exchanges, but the hon. Gentleman clea...
Alan Johnson | 493 c671 (Link to this contribution) I will give way one final time.
Justine Greening | 493 c671-2 (Link to this contribution) On that point, apparently 20 per cent. of volunteers in Britain are male, and 80 per cent. are femal...
Alan Johnson | 493 c672 (Link to this contribution) The Minister of State, Home Department, my right hon. Friend the Member for Delyn (Mr. Hanson), just...
Chris Huhne | 493 c672-4 (Link to this contribution) I, too, very much welcome the tone and the approach taken by the official Opposition, who have given...
Alan Johnson | 493 c674-5 (Link to this contribution) Will the hon. Gentleman place on record, for the sake of my successor as Health Secretary, that he i...
Chris Huhne | 493 c675 (Link to this contribution) That is an absolutely splendid smokescreen from the former Secretary of State for Health, not least ...
Keith Vaz | 493 c675 (Link to this contribution) I thank the hon. Gentleman for the evidence that he gave to the Select Committee and the useful comm...
Chris Huhne | 493 c675-6 (Link to this contribution) Absolutely. We have had so many examples, over so many years, of this extraordinary Gosplan centrali...
Rob Marris | 493 c666 (Link to this contribution) I welcome my right hon. Friend to his post. May I particularly welcome from the Back Benches the Gov...
Alan Johnson | 493 c666 (Link to this contribution) I like to think that the nation won—[Laughter.] On any disagreements that we have at the moment, the...
Alan Johnson | 493 c665-6 (Link to this contribution) I beg to move an amendment, at end add:""further recognises that tougher penalties are being impleme...
Lord Grayling | 493 c665 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman is right. For many of the young people who take part in such schemes, who come fr...
Lord Grayling | 493 c664-5 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend is right, and one of the things that make for an especially strong youth project is t...
Jim Cunningham | 493 c665 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Member for Kettering (Mr. Hollobone) has a point. We have similar problems in Coventry, and...
Lord Grayling | 493 c664 (Link to this contribution) I absolutely agree, and I pay tribute to fire services up and down the country that, along with thei...
Stephen Crabb | 493 c664 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend makes an important point about the importance of youth activity. May I also remind hi...
Philip Hollobone | 493 c664 (Link to this contribution) To add to my hon. Friend's list, may I mention young firefighter schemes? Another big problem area o...
Philip Hollobone | 493 c668 (Link to this contribution) I am pleased that the Home Secretary has moved on to the issue of parental responsibility. When I we...
Alan Johnson | 493 c668 (Link to this contribution) I agree with the hon. Gentleman. Although I have not absorbed every aspect of this job in the last c...
Keith Vaz | 493 c669 (Link to this contribution) I welcome the Home Secretary to his new post. I know that he will be a terrific success in all the c...
Alan Johnson | 493 c668-9 (Link to this contribution) The next stage would be parenting orders or family contracts, and there is a range of other measures...
Alan Johnson | 493 c667 (Link to this contribution) I believe that it would offend all civilised values to think that any young person—other than, perha...
Diane Abbott | 493 c667 (Link to this contribution) On the question of young people's attitude to murder, is it not perhaps so much that they think that...
Alan Johnson | 493 c667 (Link to this contribution) From all my experience, I think that my hon. Friend is absolutely right. Incidentally, my press offi...
Lord Bellingham | 493 c667-8 (Link to this contribution) I was delighted to hear the Home Secretary say a moment ago that recidivism was falling. That is ver...
Alan Johnson | 493 c666-7 (Link to this contribution) According to the "A.B.C of Chairmanship" by Lord Citrine, on which I was raised, we would call our c...
Mark Pritchard | 493 c667 (Link to this contribution) I congratulate the Secretary of State on his promotion. On the philosophy of behaviour, how confiden...
Lord Grayling | 493 c663 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend is absolutely right. There is a danger in the criminal justice system that we do not ...
Justine Greening | 493 c663 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend makes an important point. Part of what is needed is certainty, so that people who are...
Lord Grayling | 493 c662-3 (Link to this contribution) If the hon. Gentleman will bear with me, I will address that specific point a little later in my rem...
Chris Huhne | 493 c662 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman mentioned the importance of using serious penalties when necessary, so are the of...
Jim Cunningham | 493 c663 (Link to this contribution) Does the hon. Gentleman believe that another matter that we should examine in relation to knives is ...
Lord Grayling | 493 c664 (Link to this contribution) I would be open to all ideas as to how we can restrict the sale of knives to young people, and many ...
Emily Thornberry | 493 c663 (Link to this contribution) What about an 11-year-old who has brought a knife out from home? Would the hon. Gentleman decide tha...
Lord Grayling | 493 c663 (Link to this contribution) It clearly would be criminal activity, but if we get things right and create an environment in which...
Rob Marris | 493 c663 (Link to this contribution) On penalties, will the shadow Home Secretary indicate what he believes the age of criminal responsib...
Lord Grayling | 493 c663 (Link to this contribution) I see no reason to change the age of criminal responsibility at the moment, but I want those who car...
Humfrey Malins | 493 c659 (Link to this contribution) As I am sure my hon. Friend accepts, gang culture exists not only out in the community but, increasi...
Karen Buck | 493 c660 (Link to this contribution) Is the hon. Gentleman also aware of research by the Sutton Trust, an educational research organisati...
Lord Grayling | 493 c661 (Link to this contribution) I shall go on to say a little more about how we need a mix of intervention to rein back and construc...
Philip Hollobone | 493 c661 (Link to this contribution) I congratulate my hon. Friend on his remarks—he is absolutely right about this antisocial behaviour ...
Lord Grayling | 493 c661-2 (Link to this contribution) I agree with my hon. Friend that we need simple powers to be able to intervene early; indeed, I was ...
Lord Grayling | 493 c660 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Lady makes an important point, which she might elaborate on if she makes a speech later. T...
Andrew Love | 493 c660 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman is making a thoughtful contribution. I do not disagree with any of his points abo...
Lord Grayling | 493 c660-1 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman makes an important point, and it illustrates why we must have community groups on...
Karen Buck | 493 c661 (Link to this contribution) Does the hon. Gentleman agree, therefore, that we should be ensuring at least a guarantee of continu...
Speaker | 493 c657 (Link to this contribution) I advise the House that I have selected the amendment in the name of the Prime Minister.
Lord Grayling | 493 c657 (Link to this contribution) I beg to move,"That this House believes that teenage knife crime and the increased incidence of carr...
Lord Grayling | 493 c658-9 (Link to this contribution) That is absolutely true. We should not seek to create a climate of fear. In the vast majority of our...
Keith Vaz | 493 c658 (Link to this contribution) I thank the hon. Gentleman for his warm words about the Select Committee report and for the tone of ...
Lord Grayling | 493 c658 (Link to this contribution) That is right. There will be times when we debate issues on a party basis, but not because we have d...
Keith Vaz | 493 c701 (Link to this contribution) I pay tribute to the hon. Gentleman for his work on the report. He is picking up a point that my hon...
David TC Davies | 493 c699-701 (Link to this contribution) I recognise that. I am also aware that black boys from Barbados seem to do much better than those fr...
Diane Abbott | 493 c699 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman makes an interesting point. However, I have paid a lot of attention to black boys...
David TC Davies | 493 c701 (Link to this contribution) Yes, I am happy to give way, though the hon. Gentleman had plenty of time earlier.
Chris Huhne | 493 c701 (Link to this contribution) I was tempted to intervene earlier, when the hon. Gentleman traduced Liberal Democrat policy on stop...
David TC Davies | 493 c701 (Link to this contribution) That is exactly what I am saying. I do not believe that community sentences work, having seen them i...
Chris Huhne | 493 c701 (Link to this contribution) Will the hon. Gentleman give way?
David TC Davies | 493 c702 (Link to this contribution) I will not, because I was told to speak for only 15 minutes. I have heard more common sense from La...
David TC Davies | 493 c701-2 (Link to this contribution) Perhaps the hon. Gentleman would be right if people were able to keep order on such schemes, but the...
Chris Huhne | 493 c702 (Link to this contribution) Will the hon. Gentleman give way?
Diane Abbott | 493 c693-5 (Link to this contribution) That is right. The notion of role models is often misused. It is not a question of pulling in people...
Justine Greening | 493 c693 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Lady makes a really good point. Often, when such people see role models, they are celebriti...
John Leech | 493 c695 (Link to this contribution) I thank the hon. Lady for giving way, and I agree with what she has said. The all-party group on chi...
Diane Abbott | 493 c695-6 (Link to this contribution) I agree entirely with that intervention. I shall draw my remarks to a close. The inter-agency worki...
David TC Davies | 493 c697-8 (Link to this contribution) It has been a pleasure to listen to the debate. I am sorry that the House is so empty at the moment,...
Diane Abbott | 493 c698 (Link to this contribution) I see the same groups on my way home, as I live in my constituency. I would say this to the hon. Gen...
David TC Davies | 493 c698-9 (Link to this contribution) If the hon. Lady looked me straight in the eye in a venomous way, I would probably take a step backw...
Stephen Crabb | 493 c699 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend is making an important point. I do not think there is a difference between working-cl...
David TC Davies | 493 c699 (Link to this contribution) I agree with my hon. Friend. What I detect in these areas is an irresponsible approach towards famil...
Keith Vaz | 493 c704 (Link to this contribution) I thank the hon. Gentleman for his kind comments. That is why it is important that the dialogue shou...
James Brokenshire | 493 c702-4 (Link to this contribution) I welcome the Home Secretary to his new position—I am sorry that he is not here to hear that—and the...
Lord Swire | 493 c705 (Link to this contribution) We are talking mainly about gangs and knife crime this afternoon, but in my constituency—the quiet b...
James Brokenshire | 493 c704-5 (Link to this contribution) The right hon. Gentleman is right that we need an informed debate. He will remember the debate on kn...
James Brokenshire | 493 c705-6 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend makes his point well, and I am sure that we will all reflect on how the issue touches...
Lord Hanson of Flint | 493 c706-7 (Link to this contribution) I thank hon. Members for the constructive way in which this debate has been approached. This is my f...
Lord Watson of Wyre Forest | 493 c707 (Link to this contribution) I apologise to the House for not being here for the whole of the debate; I have been on a Committee....
Lord Hanson of Flint | 493 c707-9 (Link to this contribution) I welcome my hon. Friend's contribution, and pay tribute to his service in the Government as well. K...
Diane Abbott | 493 c691-3 (Link to this contribution) I am very glad to be able to take part in this important debate, and I congratulate the Chairman of ...
Shona McIsaac | 493 c688-9 (Link to this contribution) Yes, it has happened before. My constituents are understandably very shocked and saddened by this c...
Speaker | 493 c688 (Link to this contribution) Order. I am grateful to the hon. Lady. I was fearful that she was going to be tempted down the wrong...
Shona McIsaac | 493 c688 (Link to this contribution) I appreciate your advice, Mr. Deputy Speaker. I was not about to go into details about that particul...
Kelvin Hopkins | 493 c688 (Link to this contribution) I thank my hon. Friend for giving way. I merely wanted to say that another horrific case happened in...
Shona McIsaac | 493 c687-8 (Link to this contribution) I appreciate the tone in which the debate has been conducted. It has been very consensual, and that ...
Stephen Crabb | 493 c696-7 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful for the opportunity to participate for a few short minutes in this extremely important...
Humfrey Malins | 493 c686-7 (Link to this contribution) Another way of saying that is that if young offenders institutions are going to do real good—there i...
Justine Greening | 493 c690-1 (Link to this contribution) I shall be brief, as I know that many other Members want to speak. I am a south-west London MP, and ...
Chris Huhne | 493 c677 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman for that point, which emphasises the need to try alternatives to...
David TC Davies | 493 c670 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to the Home Secretary for giving way, and I echo those comments. However, he will sure...
Lord Grayling | 493 c659-60 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend makes an important point. He knows about the reality of the situation from his profes...
Karen Buck | 493 c658 (Link to this contribution) I, too, welcome the thoughtful way in which the hon. Gentleman is approaching this topic. I entirely...
Subjects
Crime prevention Crime Crimes of violence Anti-social behaviour Injuries Offensive weapons Sentencing Stop and search Voluntary organisations Young people Weapons Video games Gangs
Contains statistics
Yes
Link
View this Parliamentary proceeding on www.publications.parliament.uk