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Welfare Reform Bill

I support the noble Lord, Lord Kirkwood. I see many things as I go around the country. The other day I visited a children's centre, which shall be nameless, and it was excellent. I asked people there, "How many children do you manage in this nursery school?" They answered that 29 was their maximum. I then embarrassed them by asking how many children of an appropriate age there were in the area that it served. After a certain amount of thought they came up with a figure of 700. I admit that there were two other children’s centres in that area, but I regret to say to the Minister that I think that he is being provided with information that needs to be proved. I do not believe that a lot of it is the case in terms of the availability of childcare in this country today, nor the quality of it. What I hear is that, because of the important conditions that the Government are laying down for childcare to ensure quality, quite a lot of child carers are dropping out of the system. We must also recognise that we are in a fluid situation. If we get our facts wrong on this point, we will do something very bad for the children of this country.