---

Defence

I wholeheartedly agree. There have been some frankly quite disgraceful attacks on the role and work of civilians in the Ministry of Defence over recent months. It is important that we place on record the belief of those in the military that they could not do the job that they do without the support of the civilians. We then had an interesting debate, generated and led by my hon. Friend the Member for Glasgow, South-West (Mr. Davidson), who reported on the discussions between the shadow Secretary of State and the trade unions last week. What my hon. Friend said about the lack of clarity or detail from the Opposition about their commitment to the carriers was extremely forthcoming. Let me be clear that we expect the carriers to continue to be a tool that we need. That is why we have signed the contract and cut the steel. That is quite different from the hon. Member for Woodspring, who in this very debate offered no such reassurance and did not deny that he had discussed with union shop stewards his willingness to look at the break clauses on the first day of a Conservative Government.