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Welsh Zone (Boundaries and Transfer of Functions) Order 2010

My Lords, I thank all noble Lords who have taken part in this short debate. I congratulate them on the interest they are taking in the order and the support that they have given for it. I also congratulate them on the perspicacity of the questions they have put to me, which I will do my best to answer. Obviously if I leave things unsaid at the end of the debate, I shall write to noble Lords and put that right. I am pleased that the Committee takes the view that the Government do—that the change proposed in the order is sensible and will make the management and enforcement of fisheries around the Welsh coast simpler, and make a sustainable marine environment easier to achieve. We certainly take the view that it is right for a single Administration—Welsh Ministers—to become responsible for fisheries around the Welsh coast rather than the current rather cumbersome arrangements whereby five organisations are responsible for managing Welsh waters. The order helps to achieve that aim by establishing the Welsh zone, within which the Welsh Ministers will be responsible for fisheries functions. The noble Lord, Lord Glentoran, asked specifically about consultation. The Welsh Assembly Government consulted all relevant UK government departments about the proposal and received positive feedback from them. They then canvassed the other United Kingdom fisheries administrations to provide lists of relevant parties and, in May 2008, wrote directly to over 300 individuals and organisations. Sadly, only 13 responses were received. Of those, only two were against the proposal. One was from the National Federation of Fishermen’s Organisations, a body that—given the existence of national federations in the other UK nations—broadly represents the English fishing industry. The second respondent was the South Wales Sea Fisheries Committee, whose major concern was that the Welsh Ministers’ gaining responsibility for the offshore area would divert resources away from inshore fisheries. That is not our view, and it is not the view of the Welsh Assembly Government. We and they feel that the creation of the zone will not require extra resources or necessitate the reallocation of resources away from the inshore area. The other point of the question asked by the noble Lord, Lord Glentoran, was about consultation continuing. There will be regular dialogue between the Welsh Assembly Government and Defra on concurrent functions as part of the existing arrangements. Both the Welsh Assembly Government and the United Kingdom Government would need to agree before concurrent functions were exercised. In practice, therefore, licensing arrangements will continue as at present. There will be formal dialogue at ministerial level to agree such matters. Similar arrangements are already in place between the United Kingdom Government and Scotland and Northern Ireland. The noble Lord, Lord Glentoran, also asked whether Welsh Ministers would require Treasury consent to exercise functions under the 1967 Act. Treasury consent or approval will cease where the Welsh Ministers issue licences to fishing boats or for the trans-shipment of fish under Sections 4 and 4A respectively of the Sea Fish (Conservation) Act 1967. The way in which Treasury consent or approval will cease or continue on those functions transferring to the Welsh Ministers under the order reflects how those same Treasury consent or approval requirements do or do not apply to the current exercise of those functions by Welsh Ministers within the territorial sea limits. That reflects the corresponding provision in the National Assembly for Wales (Transfer of Functions) Order 1999. The noble Lord, Lord Glentoran, asked what arrangements were in place for access by the Welsh Ministers to records of a Minister of the Crown and whether that would be transferred to them. Administrative arrangements will be in place to ensure that, if needed, the Welsh Assembly Government can have access to retained records—for example, for disclosure in any court proceedings. That provision is a common feature in orders transferring ministerial functions to the Welsh Assembly Government. My noble friend Lord Jones asked whether the order would enable measures to be taken to enhance the fishing industry. The Welsh Ministers will have the same powers in the Welsh zone as currently afforded in the territorial seas. These enable Welsh Ministers both to manage and to develop fisheries in line with the aims of the Wales fisheries strategy. There are many ports in Wales. Milford Haven and Holyhead are the main ones, but there is smaller inshore fishing all around the Welsh coast, from the Gower to Anglesey. Such fishing takes place mainly in the Welsh zone. My noble friend also asked about the difference between the Welsh zone and the seaward boundary of the territorial sea. The territorial sea extends to 12 nautical miles from the baselines. The Welsh Ministers already have functions within its boundaries. The Welsh zone extends their jurisdiction to the British fishery limits and this order draws the boundaries where the zone meets the sea, which is the responsibility of the United Kingdom Government, the Northern Ireland Government, the Isle of Man and the Republic of Ireland. The noble Lord, Lord Roberts of Llandudno, asked whether all functions in the zone have been transferred to Welsh Ministers. The answer is yes: all fisheries functions have been transferred. He also asked—an interesting question—whether these functions could have been transferred by the 2009 Act. As the noble Lord well knows, an Act can, in theory, do anything that Parliament decides, but we felt—and, indeed, the Welsh Assembly Government felt—that the detail of the precise functions was more appropriate to an order. The existing functions of the Welsh Ministers were devolved by a transfer of functions order. The noble Lord also asked whether the Welsh voice will be heard in Brussels. I think he asked that because he is aware that international negotiation is a reserved matter, on which Defra leads for the United Kingdom Government. However, there is always close consultation with the devolved Administrations to ensure that matters which are of concern to them are taken into account. It is certainly my experience in this House that the Welsh voice has never gone silent or unheard. I am sure the same applies in Brussels. The noble Lord, Lord Roberts of Conwy, asked about resources and the cost to the Welsh Assembly Government of implementing the zone. The Welsh Assembly Government are confident that the changes will not result in an extra administrative burden. The zone will be cost-neutral and should not displace resources currently used to manage the inshore region. Enforcement in this area is currently undertaken by the Royal Navy. Its costs are met proportionately by the relevant fisheries departments on the basis of the relative size of the industries of each nation. The Welsh Assembly Government will continue to use the Royal Navy to undertake enforcement in the Welsh zone under the current contract. Under the current arrangements, where UK enforcement results in prosecution, many of the vessels are escorted to Welsh ports and the prosecutions are led, administratively, by the Assembly Government’s officials at courts in Wales. The noble Lord, Lord Roberts of Conwy, also asked how many people in the Welsh Assembly Government were working on the zone and whether any would transfer to the Welsh Assembly Government as a result of the order. Around 25 people in the Welsh Assembly Government work on fisheries matters. Ten of these transferred into the Welsh Assembly Government from Defra in 2008 in anticipation of this change. The only person I have not answered is the noble Duke, the Duke of Montrose. I do not know whether I have guidance that will allow me to do so. If he will forgive me, I will write to him.