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Norwich and Norfolk (Structural Changes) Order 2010

My Lords, it had not been my intention to speak in this debate because I cannot claim a connection with either Norfolk or Suffolk, but the noble Baroness, Lady Hollis, was kind enough to say that she was going to refer to what I had said on a previous occasion. I am not going to say that I retract that, or that I consider that I have changed my view. It was a mistake, but it was one made 30 years ago, to abolish the county borough status of the major cities in the country. Those ancient cities clearly had a sense of history and identity quite different from other towns within the country. The role of the county was less understood then, perhaps, than it is now. I am not trying, then, to say that I was misunderstood or that I retract, but it was 30 years ago and local government has, for better or for worse, changed significantly. I am no longer active in local government. I cannot say that my instincts towards the former county boroughs and the large cities have changed; they have not, but the financial situation has. While my instincts may not have changed, the questions raised by the Merits Committee which are before your Lordships are compelling. The arguments put forward by the noble Lord, Lord Tope, are also convincing; the amendment put forward by the noble and learned Baroness, Lady Butler-Sloss, is not fatal. It seems to me that those of us with a genuine interest in local government—and in getting the local government structure right—ought therefore to be prepared to support the noble and learned Baroness on her amendment, to ensure that these changes are not made in the dying days of a Parliament. That is not asking it of anyone who believes, as I do, that large cities have a particular place and role in local government. It does, however, enable this proposal to be further examined in the way suggested by the Merits Committee.