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Estates of Deceased Persons (Forfeiture Rule and Law of Succession) Bill

My Lords, I thank everyone who has contributed to this debate, which has greatly enhanced the reputation of this House as the Chamber in which we can hear from experts in their field. Certainly, my noble friend Lord Marks of Henley on Thames is widely respected outside this House for the depth and width of his expertise in this area. I thank him the points that he made today, and I was pleased that he referred to the reform as sensible and sympathetic. I welcome that tribute. My noble friend Lord Flight raised a series of important points, which Mr Knight raised and answered in some detail in the debates in the other place. First, I assure my noble friend that in those debates a whole series of points were raised about whether this Bill might open a loophole in inheritance tax. Other points were raised as to the cost. All those points were satisfactorily answered, but the point about mercy killings is a very important one. In 1971, Lord Justice Salmon spoke in the case of Gray and Barr about what really lies behind all this, which is that, "““it would, in general, shock the public conscience if a man could use the courts to enforce a money claim either under a contract or a will by reason of his having committed””" such an act—referring to murder. But there are some cases, as my right honourable friend in the other place, Mr Knight, said, where the public conscience would not want the full forfeiture provisions to apply. He specifically referred to mercy killings, but he pointed out that under the Forfeiture Act 1982, there is provision, "““for discretion to be applied by the courts in cases of manslaughter—I emphasise … manslaughter, because there is no discretion in cases of murder””.—[Official Report, Commons, 21/1/2011; col. 1128.]" That follows very much the views expressed by Lord Justice Salmon, which echo the public conscience in cases like this. It is very important that we keep this whole situation under review. I was taken aback by the appearance of the noble and learned Lord, Lord Scott of Foscote, and the thought that he was sitting there listening to my pontificating, as I have spent most of my professional life reading his judgments. We even enacted one of his judgments word for word in Section 1 of the Compensation Act, so I pay particular attention to his learned words. We have to think of the consequences of causing death by dangerous driving. Perhaps he will permit me to reflect further on that point, because it is a very important one and covers this area that we have spent some time talking about it. The noble Lord, Lord Bach, and I have worked together on many Law Commission Bills. It is right that we remind people all the time of what is set out at paragraph 8.44 of the Companion about the way in which we can deal with Law Commission Bills. I refer in particular to the second report of Session 2010-11 from the Procedure Committee, published on 27 July last year, which makes it clear that we are going to follow that procedure. It will do much to meet the point made by my noble friend Lord Marks of Henley on Thames. I participated in the previous Bill that went through the procedure, the Third Party (Rights Against Insurers) Act 2010. It is very important that the new procedure for scrutinising Law Commission Bills—undertaken on a trial basis—has, thanks to the noble Lord, Lord Bach, and other colleagues, come through its trial and is now to be adopted permanently. I hope that the sort of problems instanced by my noble friend Lord Marks will now be historic. Once again, I pay tribute, as the noble Lord, Lord Bach, did, to the officials in the Law Commission and in the ministry who spend a tremendous amount of time and effort getting this legislation right. It is now an improvement on the first draft, and my noble friend Lord McNally comprehensively set out the areas in which it differs from that original Bill. It is now generally accepted that, thanks to the efforts of my right honourable friend Greg Knight, we now have a Bill that can move swiftly into legislation. I think it will work. It deals with the problem through a simple device thought up by the Law Commission. There are other quirks that will need addressing. Several of us will go away from this debate determined to do something in that direction. However, with this Bill we can at least make an important start. That is why I have much pleasure in commending the Bill to the House. Bill read a second time and committed to a Committee of the Whole House.