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House of Lords Reform Bill [HL]

My Lords, I agree that we have to reduce the numbers in this House; I do not think putting an arbitrary retirement age on Peers is the right way to do it. Apart from all the arguments against it which we have just heard, which are quite valid, it would be too haphazard. We will need to be a little more precise in our aim when we come to reduce our numbers. I am a little worried that we will reduce the numbers too much. I have an idea that the noble Earl, Lord Caithness, would like to see a House of 300 people. I am a little worried because, if all the existing committees are to be staffed and government posts to be filled, I do not think 300 Members will be sufficient. I think we would be looking at nearer 500. There are 375, or thereabouts, places on our various committees and, although some sit infrequently and can be sat on by people who sit on committees that meet every week, that does not take account of government Ministers or the various other party Front Benchers. They amount to another 60, minimum. So you are getting quite near 500. I am of course talking about a voluntary House such as we have at present, and not one where the Members receive salaries and can be expected to work non-stop.