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Debate on bill on Tuesday, 13 December 2005, in the House of Commons, led by Bridget Prentice. The answering member was Jonathan Djanogly.

Criminal Defence Service Bill [HL]

Criminal Defence Service Bill (HL). Second reading debate agreed to on question. Programme motion for proceedings in Committee, on Report and Third reading agreed to on question (formal). Money resolution agreed to on question (formal). Ways and means resolution agreed to on question (formal).

Secondary information

Type
Parliamentary proceeding
Reference
440 c1238-74 
Session
2005-06
Department
Department for Constitutional Affairs
Legislative stage
Second reading
Procedure
Programme motions
Money resolutions
Ways and means resolutions
Chamber / Committee
House of Commons chamber
Related items
Proceeding contributions
Jonathan Djanogly | 440 c1249 (Link to this contribution) No, I shall not give way to the hon. and learned Lady again.
Show all contributions (91)
Vera Baird | 440 c1249 (Link to this contribution) Will the hon. Gentleman give way?
Jonathan Djanogly | 440 c1249 (Link to this contribution) No, I shall not. The hon. and learned Lady has already intervened several times. The fact that the G...
Vera Baird | 440 c1251 (Link to this contribution) I congratulate the Government on the Bill, which I welcome. I also congratulate those in another pla...
Jonathan Djanogly | 440 c1249-51 (Link to this contribution) I shall not give way. I repeat that the Government appear unable to get to grips with the problem. ...
Vera Baird | 440 c1251-2 (Link to this contribution) I will in a moment. I know that the hon. Gentleman has an interest in this matter. My chambers has ...
Jeremy Wright | 440 c1251 (Link to this contribution) : Will the hon. and learned Lady give way?
Jonathan Djanogly | 440 c1244-5 (Link to this contribution) I begin by declaring any interests that I may have as a practising solicitor. The Bill allows for t...
Bridget Prentice | 440 c1246 (Link to this contribution) I am happy to give the hon. Gentleman a progress report: we have introduced a legal aid impact asses...
Jonathan Djanogly | 440 c1246-8 (Link to this contribution) I thank the Minister for explaining that all legislation requires a regulatory impact assessment, wh...
Vera Baird | 440 c1245 (Link to this contribution) I am interested to know the views of the Opposition. It is undoubtedly mostly a matter of arithmetic...
Jonathan Djanogly | 440 c1249 (Link to this contribution) With barristers and magistrates going on strike, law firms closing down week after week—
Vera Baird | 440 c1248-9 (Link to this contribution) Would the hon. Gentleman like me to tell him over what period of time the same proportion of high-co...
Jonathan Djanogly | 440 c1248 (Link to this contribution) Eight years later, here we are talking about what needs to be done, and the best that the hon. and l...
Vera Baird | 440 c1248 (Link to this contribution) : The hon. Gentleman is making a very poor point. He said that very high-cost cases accounted for be...
Bridget Prentice | 440 c1242 (Link to this contribution) I hope that the pay dispute does not result in industrial action and that there will be an opportuni...
Bridget Prentice | 440 c1243-4 (Link to this contribution) As I said, we will look at liquid assets in an individual’s personal bank and building society accou...
Adam Afriyie | 440 c1243 (Link to this contribution) We are right to be concerned that people with limited financial means should have access to advice a...
Bridget Prentice | 440 c1243 (Link to this contribution) My hon. and learned Friend makes an important point. We think that the Bill might well screen out mo...
Vera Baird | 440 c1242-3 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Member for Enfield, Southgate (Mr. Burrowes) is wrong to suggest that the Bill is likely to...
Bridget Prentice | 440 c1243 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman makes a valid and important point. We will ensure that the assessment is made at ...
David Heath | 440 c1243 (Link to this contribution) What is the reference date for that assessment? It would be all too easy for someone to ensure that ...
Bridget Prentice | 440 c1239 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman may have been in the Chamber during Constitutional Affairs questions, in which ca...
Philip Hollobone | 440 c1239 (Link to this contribution) Will the Minister explain to the House why she had to sign a certificate to ensure that the legislat...
David Burrowes | 440 c1239 (Link to this contribution) The Government refer to the fact that they are focusing funds. Is not it the case that although the ...
Bridget Prentice | 440 c1241-2 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman makes an important point, which I shall come to later in my speech if he is prepa...
Jeremy Wright | 440 c1240-1 (Link to this contribution) The Minister has made it perfectly clear that the Government’s intention is to reduce the demands on...
Bridget Prentice | 440 c1240 (Link to this contribution) I am not aware that the hon. Gentleman was making any of those points four or five years ago, but if...
David TC Davies | 440 c1240 (Link to this contribution) Surely, we made those points four or five years ago, when the hon. Lady’s Administration changed the...
Bridget Prentice | 440 c1240 (Link to this contribution) I can only reiterate that it is part of the law of our country that we comply with the Human Rights ...
Philip Hollobone | 440 c1239-40 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to the Minister for allowing me to intervene again. I understand from the helpful exp...
Bridget Prentice | 440 c1239 (Link to this contribution) We all sign certificates to ensure that we comply with the convention. It is a good thing to do and ...
Nick Ainger | 440 c1272-3 (Link to this contribution) I always try to be helpful to the hon. Gentleman, and I do not know whether he has read the suppleme...
Nick Ainger | 440 c1272 (Link to this contribution) I shall give way for the final time on this point to the hon. Member for Somerton and Frome.
David Heath | 440 c1272 (Link to this contribution) The Minister is being very generous, and we must not rehearse now the debate that we will inevitably...
Jeremy Wright | 440 c1272 (Link to this contribution) Surely the Minister cannot have it both ways. If, as he says, the eligibility criterion is a straigh...
Nick Ainger | 440 c1272 (Link to this contribution) Why should the matter be taken to court when there is a review system? If the argument is about what...
David Heath | 440 c1271 (Link to this contribution) The Minister must know that judicial review is not a substitute for an appeal process, because it wo...
Nick Ainger | 440 c1271-2 (Link to this contribution) The issue, however, is purely financial.—[Interruption.] If we are talking about eligibility, the is...
Adam Afriyie | 440 c1272 (Link to this contribution) I disagree entirely with what the Minister has just said. This is definitely an access to justice is...
Nick Ainger | 440 c1272 (Link to this contribution) First, there can be an appeal to the court on the interests of justice issue if aid is refused on th...
Nick Ainger | 440 c1270-1 (Link to this contribution) Nice try. However, it is clear from the debates in 1999 that the issue was not perceived as controve...
David Heath | 440 c1271 (Link to this contribution) The Minister is absolutely right; there is no shortage of keen and eager students going into law sch...
Nick Ainger | 440 c1271 (Link to this contribution) I accept that point. We have to look at the issue holistically, and perhaps it can be discussed furt...
David Burrowes | 440 c1264-6 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful for the opportunity to follow my hon. Friend the Member for Rugby and Kenilworth (Jere...
David TC Davies | 440 c1267-9 (Link to this contribution) I have not read the Hansard, but I have read a number of reports, which make it clear that warnings ...
Vera Baird | 440 c1267 (Link to this contribution) I do not know whether the hon. Gentleman has read the Hansard, but there was not a squeak from any C...
David TC Davies | 440 c1267 (Link to this contribution) I am delighted to have the opportunity to speak in the debate. I join my hon. Friends in giving a ca...
David Burrowes | 440 c1266-7 (Link to this contribution) Thank you. I am obliged for that support. It is easy, as has been mentioned in the debate, to stere...
David TC Davies | 440 c1270 (Link to this contribution) The Under-Secretary knows that I was not here in 1999 because I was serving in the Welsh Assembly. I...
Nick Ainger | 440 c1269-70 (Link to this contribution) That is my recollection, and I apologise if I am incorrect. A theme that ran through the debate was ...
Jonathan Djanogly | 440 c1269 (Link to this contribution) I did not intend to intervene on the Under-Secretary, but I should be grateful if he would explain p...
Nick Ainger | 440 c1269 (Link to this contribution) I thank Members on both sides of the House for participating in a useful and constructive debate on ...
Jeremy Wright | 440 c1262-4 (Link to this contribution) I do not propose to detain the House for long. I declare an interest as a non-practising criminal ba...
David Heath | 440 c1260 (Link to this contribution) It would almost certainly be more expensive, because we would no longer have the cross-subsidy that ...
David Heath | 440 c1260 (Link to this contribution) I am certainly always interested in counter-arguments and I do not wish to cast aspersions on the pr...
Vera Baird | 440 c1260 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman makes the point well about the lack of cross-subsidy and the possibility that hea...
David Heath | 440 c1260-1 (Link to this contribution) I am glad for the defendant, but the CCRC needs to look carefully at its independence if it consider...
Vera Baird | 440 c1260 (Link to this contribution) In the case I mentioned, it was the Criminal Cases Review Commission, not the prosecuting authoritie...
David Heath | 440 c1261-2 (Link to this contribution) I have spoken for longer than I intended and to be fair to other Members I shall not give way again....
David Heath | 440 c1257-60 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman is right and I will deal with that point in a moment. We rightly always draw atte...
Jeremy Wright | 440 c1260 (Link to this contribution) Does the hon. Gentleman agree that not only would a criminal defence service be not necessarily bett...
Adam Afriyie | 440 c1257 (Link to this contribution) Legal aid is incredibly important to the least well-off and most vulnerable in society, but does the...
Vera Baird | 440 c1256 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman is incorrect. The figures show that there is more reporting of cases by non-marri...
David TC Davies | 440 c1256 (Link to this contribution) The hon. and learned Lady is extremely generous in giving way on her last word. I share her concern ...
Vera Baird | 440 c1256 (Link to this contribution) That was my last word, but I will give way to the hon. Gentleman.
Vera Baird | 440 c1255-6 (Link to this contribution) Yes, that played a significant role but, in addition, removing that layer of bureaucracy was intende...
David Heath | 440 c1255 (Link to this contribution) : Surely at the time there was a trade-off between increasing the speed of legal proceedings by remo...
Vera Baird | 440 c1254 (Link to this contribution) Of course they listened. I cannot comment on whether members of the hon. Gentleman’s branch of the p...
David Burrowes | 440 c1254 (Link to this contribution) It was made clear to me, as a member of the London Courts Solicitors Association, that the problem r...
Vera Baird | 440 c1254-5 (Link to this contribution) It really was not as clear as that. If the hon. Gentleman shows me some brilliant document from the ...
David Burrowes | 440 c1254 (Link to this contribution) : When I was practising as a criminal solicitor, it was proposed that means-testing should be abolis...
Vera Baird | 440 c1253-4 (Link to this contribution) If the hon. Gentleman reads his speech he will realise that he said that magistrates are on strike, ...
Vera Baird | 440 c1254 (Link to this contribution) I am afraid that the hon. Gentleman is completely wrong. The notion that the Government made the cha...
Jeremy Wright | 440 c1252 (Link to this contribution) I certainly am. The hon. and learned Lady is right to say that I have an interest in these matters. ...
Jonathan Djanogly | 440 c1253 (Link to this contribution) It is not a question of what this or that Government did, but of how we can move things forward. The...
Vera Baird | 440 c1252-3 (Link to this contribution) If the Bar, made up as it is almost totally of white, upper-middle-class males, had some years ago p...
David TC Davies | 440 c1238 (Link to this contribution) I have listened with great interest to what the Minister has said, but is not she saying—in a rounda...
Bridget Prentice | 440 c1238-9 (Link to this contribution) The system that was in force before we came into government was decrepit, convoluted, complex and ov...
Bridget Prentice | 440 c1238 (Link to this contribution) I beg to move, That the Bill be now read a Second time. The Bill seeks to establish a legal aid sys...
Jonathan Djanogly | 440 c1245-6 (Link to this contribution) I intend to discuss that in greater detail, so if the hon. and learned Lady will wait, I shall come ...
David Burrowes | 440 c1242 (Link to this contribution) Given that it is likely that the Bill will increase the burden on magistrates courts’ staff, does it...
Bridget Prentice | 440 c1242 (Link to this contribution) I am just about to respond to the point made by the hon. Member for Rugby and Kenilworth (Jeremy Wri...
Speaker | 440 c1249 (Link to this contribution) Order. We cannot have two hon. Members on their feet at the same time. The hon. and learned Lady mus...
David Heath | 440 c1261 (Link to this contribution) I would not expect an appeal to be heard on a challenge that someone had done their sums wrong. That...
Adam Afriyie | 440 c1261 (Link to this contribution) If it is simply a matter of a mathematical calculation, there is no reason why the existing court sy...
David Heath | 440 c1257 (Link to this contribution) It is a pleasure, as always, to follow the hon. and learned Lady. As is also very often the case, I ...
Subjects
Access Criminal proceedings Courts Applications Administration Assets Criminal Defence Service Finance Legal aid scheme Eligibility Income Legal representation Legal Services Commission Legal costs Powers Means-tested benefits Solicitors
Legislation
Criminal Defence Service Bill (HL) 2005-06
Link
View this Parliamentary proceeding on www.publications.parliament.uk