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Debate on bill on Friday, 20 October 2006, in the House of Commons, led by Baroness Burt of Solihull. The answering member was Phil Woolas.

Local Government and Planning (Parkland and Windfall Development) Bill

Local Government and Planning (Parkland and Windfall Development) Bill. Second reading debate. Negatived on question.

Secondary information

Type
Parliamentary proceeding
Reference
450 c1129-92 
Session
2005-06
Department
Department for Communities and Local Government
Legislative stage
Second reading
Procedure
Private members' bills proceedings
Chamber / Committee
House of Commons chamber
Related items
Proceeding contributions
Andrew Miller | 450 c1129 (Link to this contribution) I am trying to see where the hon. Lady’s argument fits in with my experience in my constituency. Per...
Baroness Burt of Solihull | 450 c1129 (Link to this contribution) I beg to move, That the Bill be now read a Second time. I, and many people in Solihull, have been w...
Show all contributions (160)
Andrew Dismore | 450 c1130 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Lady has not stated whether she believes that the Bill complies with the Human Rights Act 1...
Baroness Burt of Solihull | 450 c1129-30 (Link to this contribution) Different local authorities have different attitudes to the sale of parkland. The Bill seeks to prot...
Baroness McIntosh of Pickering | 450 c1130 (Link to this contribution) I congratulate the hon. Lady on securing the debate. She mentioned holding a referendum. Has she est...
Baroness McIntosh of Pickering | 450 c1130 (Link to this contribution) We are the low tax party, which does not like further burdens on the taxpayer. Has the hon. Lady est...
Baroness Burt of Solihull | 450 c1130 (Link to this contribution) I am sorry but I do not understand the last part of the hon. Lady’s remarks.
Baroness Burt of Solihull | 450 c1133 (Link to this contribution) The oak tree had just been announced as the symbol of the Conservative party when the sale of the pa...
Nigel Evans | 450 c1133 (Link to this contribution) Has the hon. Lady spoken to the developer?
Baroness Burt of Solihull | 450 c1133-4 (Link to this contribution) Yes, and there is a plan to make some improvements to the rest of Shirley park. I am not sure whethe...
Andy Slaughter | 450 c1134 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Lady is speaking as though local authorities had no planning powers. I thought that it was ...
Baroness Burt of Solihull | 450 c1132-3 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman makes an excellent point. That is something on which those advising us in Committ...
Philip Davies | 450 c1132 (Link to this contribution) I, too, have an awful lot of sympathy with the hon. Lady’s Bill. On referendums, however, her party,...
Baroness Burt of Solihull | 450 c1132 (Link to this contribution) I hope that I shall have the opportunity to ask the hon. Lady the same question as she asked me, but...
Baroness McIntosh of Pickering | 450 c1131 (Link to this contribution) I do not wish to test the hon. Lady’s patience, but it is customary when preparing such Bills to con...
Baroness Burt of Solihull | 450 c1132 (Link to this contribution) I wonder how many of the Bills that have been tabled for consideration today contain such an assessm...
Philip Hollobone | 450 c1131 (Link to this contribution) I congratulate the hon. Lady on promoting the Bill and I am sure that many of us are sympathetic to ...
Baroness Burt of Solihull | 450 c1131 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful for that thoughtful intervention. Any referendum would have to be proportionate to the...
Andrew Dismore | 450 c1131 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Lady is generous in giving way and I have some sympathy with the Bill. She said that the Se...
Baroness Burt of Solihull | 450 c1131 (Link to this contribution) I am trying to express the way forward. People who are much cleverer than me will be required to imp...
Nigel Evans | 450 c1130-1 (Link to this contribution) I, too congratulate the hon. Lady. In my 14 years as a Member of Parliament, I have had six private ...
Baroness Burt of Solihull | 450 c1131 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful for that intervention, because it enables me to say that I have done exactly as the ho...
Baroness Burt of Solihull | 450 c1130 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Lady portrays her party as the low tax party. Who will the tax cuts benefit most—wealthier ...
Nigel Evans | 450 c1138 (Link to this contribution) Many old mental institutions were asylums, and they had a lot of trees and open green spaces. Develo...
Andrew Miller | 450 c1138-9 (Link to this contribution) Again, I shall be slightly careful because the Bill does not have tight definitions, but I am assumi...
James Duddridge | 450 c1139 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman mentions land that has been donated to a local authority by a charitable benefact...
Andrew Miller | 450 c1139 (Link to this contribution) I am not sure about that. I have not considered that angle, but the hon. Gentleman is right to say t...
Baroness Burt of Solihull | 450 c1139-40 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman for his extremely valid points. To develop the discussion point ...
Andrew Miller | 450 c1140 (Link to this contribution) That is a fair point, and the House needs to consider such issues in great detail. Let me illustrate...
Andrew Miller | 450 c1138 (Link to this contribution) I agree with my hon. Friend, although I thought about taking issue when he used the word ““redundant...
Andrew Dismore | 450 c1138 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend makes an important point, as many public bodies have a lot of redundant land. To take...
Andrew Miller | 450 c1138 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman makes a fair point. I am not the greatest procedural expert in this place and I a...
Nigel Evans | 450 c1138 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman makes an interesting point about NHS land, and we should look to widen the Bill’s...
Andrew Miller | 450 c1136 (Link to this contribution) I have enormous sympathy with the thrust of the Bill introduced by the hon. Member for Solihull (Lor...
James Duddridge | 450 c1137 (Link to this contribution) I share the hon. Gentleman’s concerns about the nature of the Bill, which is attempting to achieve s...
Andy Slaughter | 450 c1134-5 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to the hon. Lady for giving way, and I apologise for interrupting. She speaks as thoug...
Baroness Burt of Solihull | 450 c1135-6 (Link to this contribution) I am surprised by the hon. Gentleman’s comments. I accept that there are planning guidelines, and if...
Andrew Miller | 450 c1137-8 (Link to this contribution) As my hon. Friend says from a sedentary position, Eric Forth would have taken an hour to do that, wi...
Andrew Miller | 450 c1137 (Link to this contribution) That is a good point, and I hope that the hon. Gentleman shares my concern about the disgraceful beh...
Baroness Burt of Solihull | 450 c1134 (Link to this contribution) May I finish answering the hon. Gentleman’s first question? Often, when there is an appeal against a...
Baroness Burt of Solihull | 450 c1134 (Link to this contribution) I will develop that point at some length in due course. The problem is that, although a local author...
Baroness Burt of Solihull | 450 c1140 (Link to this contribution) Clause 9 deals with interpretation and defines what we mean by a local authority. I hope that the pr...
Philip Davies | 450 c1143 (Link to this contribution) May I clarify what the hon. Gentleman is saying? Does he mean that if a proposed development in his ...
Andy Slaughter | 450 c1143 (Link to this contribution) I would not want my hon. Friend to misrepresent the views of the right hon. Member for Suffolk, Coas...
Andrew Miller | 450 c1143 (Link to this contribution) Indeed. On 28 August, in Planning, the right hon. Member for Suffolk, Coastal (Mr. Gummer) stated:"“...
Andrew Miller | 450 c1144-5 (Link to this contribution) That could take us into another area that I do not want to go into, because it would take too much o...
James Duddridge | 450 c1144 (Link to this contribution) Will the hon. Gentleman therefore propose an amendment to delete the words ““urban or suburban areas...
Baroness Burt of Solihull | 450 c1144 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman for his comments on that point. The subject arose when I was tak...
Nigel Evans | 450 c1140-1 (Link to this contribution) I appreciate what the hon. Gentleman is saying, but I agree with the hon. Member for Solihull that w...
Andrew Miller | 450 c1141 (Link to this contribution) That brings me neatly on to clause 1(2) and I am grateful for the hon. Gentleman’s observation. It i...
Nigel Evans | 450 c1141 (Link to this contribution) I am not so sure that a building in a woodland or in an open space would be covered in any event, bu...
Andrew Miller | 450 c1142 (Link to this contribution) I await the magical guidance from the Minister after he has received his pearls of wisdom.
Nigel Evans | 450 c1142 (Link to this contribution) I am not so sure. If there are buildings in the parkland, they would already be considered as brownf...
Andrew Miller | 450 c1141-2 (Link to this contribution) That is why I said that we have to consider costs and benefits together. The benefit may be a potent...
Baroness Burt of Solihull | 450 c1142 (Link to this contribution) I am happy to offer further clarification. The hon. Member for Ribble Valley (Mr. Evans) has it spot...
Andrew Miller | 450 c1142 (Link to this contribution) I will not develop my point any further, as it would be a waste of the House’s time. I openly posed ...
Andrew Miller | 450 c1151 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend’s remarks highlight the point that I made about referendums. In that instance, a refe...
Andrew Dismore | 450 c1151-2 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend makes an important point, which I shall develop later in my remarks. The Edgware hosp...
Nigel Evans | 450 c1147-8 (Link to this contribution) In that case, I hope the local authority will think again. If it goes ahead with the development, I ...
Andrew Dismore | 450 c1148-51 (Link to this contribution) I, too, congratulate the hon. Member for Solihull (Lorely Burt) on bringing these important issues b...
Andrew Dismore | 450 c1153 (Link to this contribution) Or the pension funds, as my hon. Friend the Minister says. I would have been happy with any of those...
Baroness Burt of Solihull | 450 c1152 (Link to this contribution) It means the area that is being sold; that is what falls within that definition.
Andrew Dismore | 450 c1152 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to the hon. Lady for that clarification, but it will not do. It could be an area with ...
Andrew Dismore | 450 c1153 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to my hon. Friend—
Nigel Evans | 450 c1153 (Link to this contribution) I am sure that the hon. Gentleman does. To be a bit irreverent, I could observe that in some electio...
Nigel Evans | 450 c1145 (Link to this contribution) I shall make a short speech—certainly shorter than that of the hon. Member for Ellesmere Port and Ne...
Andrew Miller | 450 c1145 (Link to this contribution) This is private Members’ business.
Nigel Evans | 450 c1145-6 (Link to this contribution) I am sure that other people will be guiding the hon. Gentleman on this issue, but I am minded to sup...
Andrew Dismore | 450 c1146 (Link to this contribution) I am sure that in the hon. Gentleman’s constituency there are regular elections to the local authori...
Nigel Evans | 450 c1146 (Link to this contribution) I fully accept that. There may be cases where we just have to hold a referendum and the cost has to ...
Andrew Dismore | 450 c1146 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman has come up with some very interesting ideas, but I draw the line at the idea of ...
Nigel Evans | 450 c1146-7 (Link to this contribution) I accept that. I would not argue, even at this stage, that we should introduce online voting in loca...
Nigel Evans | 450 c1147 (Link to this contribution) I agree. That is why the Bill needs further attention in Committee and more detailed inspection. By ...
Baroness Burt of Solihull | 450 c1147 (Link to this contribution) Indeed. The hon. Gentleman is making some excellent points. Another problem with local democracy ari...
Baroness Burt of Solihull | 450 c1172 (Link to this contribution) Because there is such a wide definition of what constitutes building on previously residential land,...
Philip Davies | 450 c1170-2 (Link to this contribution) We have had an interesting and worthwhile debate. I congratulate the hon. Member for Solihull (Lorel...
Andy Slaughter | 450 c1167-70 (Link to this contribution) I fear that I shall be less complimentary about the Bill than some of my hon. Friends. There is noth...
Philip Davies | 450 c1172 (Link to this contribution) I notice that the Minister was asking the hon. Gentleman to intervene on his behalf.
Andy Slaughter | 450 c1172 (Link to this contribution) Will the hon. Gentleman give way?
Philip Davies | 450 c1172 (Link to this contribution) I shall be interested to hear what the Minister wanted said by proxy.
Phil Woolas | 450 c1172 (Link to this contribution) It was my hon. Friend’s point.
Philip Davies | 450 c1172 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to the Minister for his intervention by proxy. I am in this place to represent my cons...
Andy Slaughter | 450 c1172 (Link to this contribution) Although I have known my hon. Friend the Minister for many years, I cannot read his mind. I think hi...
James Duddridge | 450 c1165-7 (Link to this contribution) There might be a contradiction between what local people want now and the original intention for the...
Baroness Burt of Solihull | 450 c1165 (Link to this contribution) I am sorry to intervene on the hon. Gentleman so early in his speech. It is certainly not the intent...
James Duddridge | 450 c1164-5 (Link to this contribution) I congratulate the hon. Member for Solihull (Lorely Burt) on promoting the Bill. I agree with much o...
Andrew Dismore | 450 c1162-3 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman makes another important point. What else might happen? If the Secretary of State...
Nigel Evans | 450 c1162 (Link to this contribution) There is also a danger that if the period is too long some local authorities that were thinking of t...
Andrew Dismore | 450 c1160-2 (Link to this contribution) I suppose I probably did, but not for the way in which it is operating. I have grave reservations ab...
Speaker | 450 c1164 (Link to this contribution) I said to the hon. Member for Hendon (Mr. Dismore) that the quality of his original point of order w...
Lord Randall of Uxbridge | 450 c1164 (Link to this contribution) On a point of order, Mr. Deputy Speaker. I am sure that you recall that, at the beginning of today’s...
Andrew Dismore | 450 c1164 (Link to this contribution) That is another sensible suggestion from the hon. Gentleman. We could have some transitional provisi...
Nigel Evans | 450 c1163 (Link to this contribution) To safeguard against local authorities trying to dispose of land in the interim period, perhaps the ...
Andrew Dismore | 450 c1158-60 (Link to this contribution) Of course, Mr. Speaker. I was just coming to the end of that point, as I realised that my digression...
Jacqui Lait | 450 c1160 (Link to this contribution) Did the hon. Gentleman vote for the Standards Board?
Andrew Dismore | 450 c1156-7 (Link to this contribution) I hear what the hon. Lady says, but clause 2(2) also imposes a duty on a local authority in terms of...
Baroness Burt of Solihull | 450 c1156 (Link to this contribution) The clause states that a local authority ““may”” establish a parkland association. I took on board t...
Andrew Dismore | 450 c1157-8 (Link to this contribution) I think that the hon. Member for Solihull can speak for herself about that, but my hon. Friend makes...
Andy Slaughter | 450 c1157 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend rightly cites Barnet and many other Conservative councils as taking that line, but is...
Andrew Dismore | 450 c1155 (Link to this contribution) Accepting your constraints, Mr. Deputy Speaker, we are probably straying a little beyond the terms o...
Andrew Dismore | 450 c1156 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman predicts my very next question, which is, how does one have such a system without...
James Duddridge | 450 c1156 (Link to this contribution) Is the hon. Gentleman aware of the criticism of the Californian system? Sometimes, there are as many...
Nigel Evans | 450 c1155 (Link to this contribution) If local elections take place and there is a referendum on the issue in question, that strengthens l...
Andrew Dismore | 450 c1155 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman is making my point, which is that we should separate out such issues rather than ...
Nigel Evans | 450 c1155 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman is making an interesting point, but I recall that as we approached the European e...
Andrew Dismore | 450 c1154-5 (Link to this contribution) Yes, certainly not to the worm. I shall now move on to subsection (2), and the discussions that we ...
Andrew Dismore | 450 c1153-4 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to my hon. Friend for that intervention, because I also get a mention in councillor Di...
Andy Slaughter | 450 c1153 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend has drawn attention several times to the Porter regime, and I do not think he gives h...
Andrew Dismore | 450 c1153 (Link to this contribution) Hon. Friend in this context, as he agrees with me. I am grateful to the hon. Member for Ribble Valle...
Jacqui Lait | 450 c1191 (Link to this contribution) If the hon. Lady will forgive me, I understand that 34 extra acres in Solihull have been made new op...
Baroness Burt of Solihull | 450 c1191 (Link to this contribution) I wonder whether the hon. Lady is referring to the constituency of Meriden, which has a regeneration...
Baroness Burt of Solihull | 450 c1192 (Link to this contribution) I must inform the hon. Lady that that particular area is probably 12 to 14 miles away and it has no ...
Phil Woolas | 450 c1188 (Link to this contribution) We seem to have gone from a beautiful oak tree, which we all wish to protect, to perhaps the most co...
Philip Davies | 450 c1188 (Link to this contribution) In the Minister’s list of things that are causing pressures on housing, such as divorce and demograp...
Phil Woolas | 450 c1189 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Lady is trying to hold me and the Government responsible for the decisions of local authori...
Baroness Burt of Solihull | 450 c1189-91 (Link to this contribution) With the leave of the House, I shall make a few brief points, so that we can move on to another impo...
Phil Woolas | 450 c1187-8 (Link to this contribution) I thank the hon. Lady for explaining why this is such a hot issue. I understand that, and I have con...
Jacqui Lait | 450 c1187 (Link to this contribution) I reiterate the point that the interplay of that guidance and the Government’s desire to increase ho...
Phil Woolas | 450 c1185-7 (Link to this contribution) Indeed, that is the intention. I have some more, even better, news for the right hon. Gentleman: in ...
Lord Beith | 450 c1185 (Link to this contribution) The valuable initiative to which the Minister refers is, presumably, helpful not only in the case of...
Phil Woolas | 450 c1180 (Link to this contribution) I think we can all sign up to that. [Hon. Members: ““Can we quote you?””] Hon. Members can more than...
Philip Davies | 450 c1181 (Link to this contribution) I believe in local democracy. If a local authority were to decide that, it would face the consequenc...
Phil Woolas | 450 c1181-5 (Link to this contribution) I will ensure that the Conservative association in Solihull has a copy of the hon. Gentleman’s comme...
Phil Woolas | 450 c1180 (Link to this contribution) I am confident that when the Deputy Prime Minister announced the new policy on increasing density—
Speaker | 450 c1180 (Link to this contribution) Order. I have allowed some leeway, but the Bill does not cover housing density to this extent.
Phil Woolas | 450 c1180 (Link to this contribution) Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. Perhaps I can make my point in commenting on specific clauses in th...
Jacqui Lait | 450 c1180 (Link to this contribution) I do not wish to turn this into a dialogue, but I do not think that the two are at all contradictory...
Phil Woolas | 450 c1179-80 (Link to this contribution) I understand the hon. Lady’s point, but there is a contradiction at the heart of it. She criticises ...
Phil Woolas | 450 c1179 (Link to this contribution) Of course I understand the hon. Gentleman’s argument, and to be fair, I must admit that he did menti...
Jacqui Lait | 450 c1179 (Link to this contribution) When recommending more housing and planning powers for regional assemblies and the Mayor of London, ...
Phil Woolas | 450 c1178-9 (Link to this contribution) Required reading by me, yes. My hon. Friend the Member for Ealing, Acton and Shepherd's Bush (Mr. S...
Philip Davies | 450 c1179 (Link to this contribution) I tried to make clear that I was referring to residential developments in particular. I recognised t...
Phil Woolas | 450 c1177-8 (Link to this contribution) I congratulate the hon. Member for Solihull (Lorely Burt) on achieving this debate on her Bill on th...
Philip Davies | 450 c1173-4 (Link to this contribution) My point relates to appeals. As I think I have made clear, I want a proper process for the local aut...
Jacqui Lait | 450 c1174-7 (Link to this contribution) I add my congratulations to the hon. Member for Solihull (Lorely Burt) on her success in introducing...
Andy Slaughter | 450 c1173 (Link to this contribution) I am delighted to hear what the hon. Gentleman says about removing regulation. Does he then agree wi...
Philip Davies | 450 c1172-3 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to the hon. Lady and endorse what she says. As many Members know, building on gardens ...
Nigel Evans | 450 c1132 (Link to this contribution) I have great sympathy with the hon. Lady’s Bill. I would like to see more local referendums and, ind...
Andrew Miller | 450 c1144 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Lady’s observation is absolutely right. The House recently passed a regulatory reform order...
Andrew Miller | 450 c1140 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful for that observation, but clause 9 does not define whose opinion would be relevant to ...
Jacqui Lait | 450 c1189 (Link to this contribution) Can the Minister reconcile those figures with the ones just published about the percentage of garden...
Speaker | 450 c1188 (Link to this contribution) Order. A significant matter it might be, but the matter before us is one of housing and parkland spa...
Baroness Burt of Solihull | 450 c1130 (Link to this contribution) The Bill was produced by the Public Bill Office, but I do not know whether it has been assessed for ...
Baroness Burt of Solihull | 450 c1132 (Link to this contribution) I, too, believe that such decisions should be taken as close as possible to the people who are affec...
Andrew Miller | 450 c1143-4 (Link to this contribution) I have an advantage over the hon. Member for Solihull: I have a decent, well-meaning local authority...
Andrew Miller | 450 c1142-3 (Link to this contribution) Again, I am not a lawyer and I am not convinced. I think that the hon. Gentleman is not a lawyer eit...
Speaker | 450 c1158 (Link to this contribution) Order. I think that the hon. Gentleman recognises that that subject would be better dealt with on an...
Speaker | 450 c1155 (Link to this contribution) Order. That is taking us far too wide of the Bill.
Nigel Evans | 450 c1142 (Link to this contribution) What the hon. Lady just said is important. It is her Bill and if it becomes an Act, Hansard can be u...
Nigel Evans | 450 c1133 (Link to this contribution) As the hon. Lady will know, everyone in the Conservative party feels very deeply about trees. We hav...
Subjects
Appeals Community development Construction Housing Environment protection Land use Gardens Local government Planning permission Parks Sales Trees Greenfield sites
Legislation
Local Government and Planning (Parkland and Windfall Development) Bill 2005-06
Link
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