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Opposition day on Wednesday, 23 April 2008, in the House of Commons, led by David Ruffley. The answering member was Tony McNulty.

Crime (London)

Crime in London. Tenth Opposition day debate (part 2). Motion negatived on division (308 votes to 193). Amendment agreed to on division (303 votes to 181).

Secondary information

Type
Parliamentary proceeding
Reference
474 c1376-429 
Session
2007-08
Department
Home Office
Chamber / Committee
House of Commons chamber
Proceeding contributions
David Ruffley | 474 c1376 (Link to this contribution) I beg to move,"That this House supports the dedication of police officers in the City of London Poli...
Andrew Love | 474 c1376 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman has quoted Metropolitan Police Service figures. Does he accept that violent crime...
Show all contributions (177)
David Ruffley | 474 c1377 (Link to this contribution) No, I do not. That is a reproach to the hon. Member for Edmonton (Mr. Love) who, when we debated the...
David Ruffley | 474 c1377 (Link to this contribution) No, I do not, because of the statistics that I have just read out. The hon. Gentleman really ought t...
Lord Randall of Uxbridge | 474 c1377 (Link to this contribution) I am sure that my hon. Friend has not had time yet to read today's Uxbridge Gazette, but when he doe...
David Burrowes | 474 c1377 (Link to this contribution) Following the intervention by my neighbour, my hon. Friend the Member for Uxbridge (Mr. Randall), we...
Daniel Kawczynski | 474 c1377 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend mentions police officers. Will he join me in thanking the police officers who protect...
Theresa Villiers | 474 c1379 (Link to this contribution) Does my hon. Friend agree with my constituents in Chipping Barnet that neither the Government nor th...
Clive Efford | 474 c1379 (Link to this contribution) Would the hon. Gentleman care to comment, in response to the hon. Member for Chipping Barnet (Mrs. V...
Simon Hughes | 474 c1379 (Link to this contribution) As I am a London Member of Parliament, representing more than 100,000 Londoners, will the hon. Gentl...
Stephen Hammond | 474 c1382 (Link to this contribution) If we are going to trade statistics about the buses, I shall say that Transport for London's latest ...
Karen Buck | 474 c1382 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful. If I heard him correctly, the hon. Gentleman was citing figures for 2004-05 and 2005-...
Karen Buck | 474 c1382 (Link to this contribution) Will the hon. Gentleman give way?
David Ruffley | 474 c1382 (Link to this contribution) If it is to make an intervention on that point.
Harry Cohen | 474 c1381 (Link to this contribution) Earlier in his speech, the hon. Gentleman slipped in the remark that, if the Conservatives won the e...
David Ruffley | 474 c1383 (Link to this contribution) It is no kind of leadership and my hon. Friend's point, like that of my hon. Friend the Member for P...
David Ruffley | 474 c1382 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to my hon. Friend. Assaults on the buses are up. TfL's internal papers confirm that t...
Justine Greening | 474 c1382 (Link to this contribution) I am sure that my hon. Friend also recognises that many of the victims on buses are young. Often, th...
David Ruffley | 474 c1382 (Link to this contribution) I agree entirely with my hon. Friend.
Boris Johnson | 474 c1382-3 (Link to this contribution) I agree deeply with my hon. Friend's profound analysis of what is going wrong on London transport. T...
David Ruffley | 474 c1383 (Link to this contribution) As ever, my hon. Friend gets it absolutely spot on. Like many on the Conservative Benches, he has le...
Joan Ryan | 474 c1384-5 (Link to this contribution) I should tell the hon. Gentleman that we have police community support officers on our buses already...
Tony McNulty | 474 c1387 (Link to this contribution) I promise faithfully, Madam Deputy Speaker, that I shall not call you Madam Deputy Mayor at any stag...
David Ruffley | 474 c1387 (Link to this contribution) Will the right hon. Gentleman give way?
Tom Brake | 474 c1402 (Link to this contribution) I apologise. The hon. Gentleman tabled one question about London in six years, but Londoners will no...
Andrew Dismore | 474 c1402 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman has been coruscating about the mayoral pitch by the hon. Member for Henley (Mr. J...
Tom Brake | 474 c1402 (Link to this contribution) It will come as no surprise to the hon. Gentleman that I shall not express a second preference. Th...
Clive Efford | 474 c1402 (Link to this contribution) Crime has fallen in each of the past five years. It has fallen by an average of 5.5 per cent. in the...
Tom Brake | 474 c1401-2 (Link to this contribution) I seem to be playing piggy-in-the-middle, trying to act as a third party and defend a policy that is...
Clive Efford | 474 c1403 (Link to this contribution) I am coming to you, don't you worry.
Clive Efford | 474 c1403 (Link to this contribution) I am coming to the hon. Lady. Harrow council carried out a crime survey and found that 71 per cent....
Speaker | 474 c1403 (Link to this contribution) Order. I counsel the hon. Gentleman to use the correct parliamentary language.
Tom Brake | 474 c1400 (Link to this contribution) I will give way once more; then I think I should make some progress.
Angela Watkinson | 474 c1400 (Link to this contribution) In my constituency and, I am sure, those of most other London Members, there is a range of activitie...
Tom Brake | 474 c1400 (Link to this contribution) I agree. Provision varies from one local authority to another, but many provide a variety of options...
Tom Brake | 474 c1400 (Link to this contribution) I thank the hon. Gentleman for his very helpful intervention. I have just highlighted one thing that...
Andy Slaughter | 474 c1401 (Link to this contribution) While we are at it, could we have a third piece of honesty? Should not the Conservative party admit ...
Tom Brake | 474 c1401 (Link to this contribution) I recall that the hon. Lady made the same point during a topical debate a few weeks ago. There is cl...
Justine Greening | 474 c1401 (Link to this contribution) Might not another piece of honesty have appeared in the amendment—the admission that band D taxpayer...
Tom Brake | 474 c1400-1 (Link to this contribution) I agree. That echoes what was said by the hon. Member for Upminster (Angela Watkinson) about the har...
Simon Hughes | 474 c1400 (Link to this contribution) I wanted to respond to the last three interventions. I know that the Government are considering whet...
Robert Neill | 474 c1405 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman is interested in history, so will he ask the Home Secretary to tell the House abo...
Clive Efford | 474 c1404-5 (Link to this contribution) There we are: crime in London is falling even as we speak. We need to put the figures in context, a...
Harry Cohen | 474 c1405 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend has made some very good points, but may I put it to him that he has not quite set out...
Clive Efford | 474 c1405 (Link to this contribution) I sometimes wonder where the Conservatives come from. If they ever talked to police officers in the ...
Angela Watkinson | 474 c1406 (Link to this contribution) May I take the hon. Gentleman back to the matter of PCSOs? He said that he regretted that some are t...
Clive Efford | 474 c1405 (Link to this contribution) Absolutely. The Mayor has to be commended for the resolute approach he has taken to delivering what ...
Clive Efford | 474 c1406 (Link to this contribution) I do not really see that as a major issue. The fact is that people would rather have police officers...
Clive Efford | 474 c1406 (Link to this contribution) If the hon. Lady does not mind, I shall give way to my hon. Friend and then make some progress.
Justine Greening | 474 c1403 (Link to this contribution) On a point of order, Mr. Deputy Speaker. I have been trying to intervene to set the record straight....
Clive Efford | 474 c1403 (Link to this contribution) Thank you for correcting me, Mr. Deputy Speaker. I am using the colleagues of the hon. Member for Pu...
Speaker | 474 c1403 (Link to this contribution) Order. I do not want to keep intervening on the hon. Gentleman, but he must use the correct parliame...
Clive Efford | 474 c1403-4 (Link to this contribution) Kensington and Chelsea council says that burglaries have been ““slashed””, and that"““Kensington and...
Speaker | 474 c1403 (Link to this contribution) That is not a matter—[Interruption.] ... Order. The hon. Lady will get my guidance. That is not a po...
Andrew Dismore | 474 c1404 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend began his contribution by referring to Barnet council, but I think that the figures t...
Justine Greening | 474 c1404 (Link to this contribution) I am pleased that the hon. Gentleman has finally allowed me to intervene, given that he has been tal...
Clive Efford | 474 c1404 (Link to this contribution) I am slightly confused, as I used the words of the Conservative-run Wandsworth council—““despite rec...
Speaker | 474 c1413 (Link to this contribution) Comments about who is or is not in the Chamber are always really a waste of time.
Andy Slaughter | 474 c1413 (Link to this contribution) On a point of order, Mr. Deputy Speaker. That is the second time that the hon. Lady has criticised f...
Andy Slaughter | 474 c1414-5 (Link to this contribution) I will use the little time that I have to express my disdain at the motivation of the Conservatives ...
Justine Greening | 474 c1414 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful for that, Mr. Deputy Speaker. However, I have to say that issues have been raised abou...
Karen Buck | 474 c1411-2 (Link to this contribution) Three children have died as a result of knife crime in my constituency in a little over a year—Kodjo...
Justine Greening | 474 c1412-3 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful for the opportunity to contribute to this important debate on an issue of great concer...
Karen Buck | 474 c1412 (Link to this contribution) I will not, because I want to finish my contribution to allow others to participate. It is no good ...
Andrew Dismore | 474 c1406 (Link to this contribution) I have just a short point to confirm what my hon. Friend said about police recruitment. As he knows,...
Lee Scott | 474 c1408-10 (Link to this contribution) I hope to please hon. Members in all parts of the House with my speech, as I do not intend to read s...
Clive Efford | 474 c1408 (Link to this contribution) Mr. Deputy Speaker, there is no denying that the remarks that I quoted were written down. They are o...
Clive Efford | 474 c1408 (Link to this contribution) I will take your guidance, Mr. Deputy Speaker, but this is an important issue for London. We are tal...
Speaker | 474 c1408 (Link to this contribution) Order. I have already said to the House that the tone of the debate should be thought through very c...
Clive Efford | 474 c1407-8 (Link to this contribution) I agree absolutely. People from all sections of our communities need confidence in their police forc...
Andy Slaughter | 474 c1407 (Link to this contribution) Does my hon. Friend agree that by reducing police accountability over stop and search the Conservati...
Clive Efford | 474 c1406-7 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to my hon. Friend, who illustrates the fact that there is more to recruiting police of...
Harry Cohen | 474 c1410 (Link to this contribution) I agree with the hon. Gentleman's initial comments and join him in paying tribute to Chief Superinte...
Lord Coaker | 474 c1419 (Link to this contribution) I thank all hon. Members who have taken part in this debate. I would have welcomed a contribution fr...
Keith Vaz | 474 c1419 (Link to this contribution) On the issue of facts, when Sir Ronnie Flanagan gave evidence to the Select Committee on Home Affair...
Lord Coaker | 474 c1419-21 (Link to this contribution) My right hon. Friend puts the issue well. Let me read out some facts, so that we can get them on the...
Lord McLoughlin | 474 c1421 (Link to this contribution) rose in his place and claimed to move, That the Question be now put. Question, That the Question be...
Speaker | 474 c1415 (Link to this contribution) Order. The hon. Gentleman has made a very serious charge. [Interruption.] Order. In this House, we o...
Andy Slaughter | 474 c1415 (Link to this contribution) I entirely accept what you say, Mr. Deputy Speaker. I do, however, have the transcript of that conve...
Robert Neill | 474 c1415-6 (Link to this contribution) I shall be very brief and not go down the route taken by the hon. Member for Ealing, Acton and Sheph...
Speaker | 474 c1376 (Link to this contribution) I have to announce that Mr. Speaker has selected the amendment in the name of the Prime Minister.
David Ruffley | 474 c1377 (Link to this contribution) I entirely agree with my hon. Friend, and Labour Members should stop being so complacent. We can cel...
David Evennett | 474 c1377 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend is making a powerful and effective case—[Hon. Members: ““No, he's not.””] Labour Memb...
David Ruffley | 474 c1377-8 (Link to this contribution) They want a new approach and they also want the Government to accept that, according to the British ...
Mike Gapes | 474 c1378 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to the hon. Member for Bury St. Edmunds (Mr. Ruffley)—not a London constituency. Did h...
Andrew Dismore | 474 c1378 (Link to this contribution) Perhaps I can try the hon. Gentleman on this point. Does he agree with the hon. Member for Henley (M...
David Ruffley | 474 c1378-9 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman will try anything on; if he wants to try that, he can forget it. Let us move on ...
Speaker | 474 c1388 (Link to this contribution) Order. If Members wish to intervene, they should do so in the correct manner.
Tony McNulty | 474 c1388 (Link to this contribution) Not tetchy either, thank you very much; serious.
Tony McNulty | 474 c1387 (Link to this contribution) I will give way to my hon. Friend in a moment, but let me finish this point. Serious crimes are comm...
Speaker | 474 c1387 (Link to this contribution) Order. May we please have this debate conducted in an orderly fashion?
Tony McNulty | 474 c1388 (Link to this contribution) I am trying to inject a degree of seriousness into the debate that has been sorely lacking.
Tony McNulty | 474 c1388 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman will hang himself from his own mouth; that is not my business. In 2001-02, to ac...
Tony McNulty | 474 c1389 (Link to this contribution) I can give that guarantee, but only if Ken Livingstone is Mayor on 2 May. I cannot give such a guara...
Nick Hurd | 474 c1389 (Link to this contribution) My constituents are not idiots, and they probably tune out the ding-dong on statistics. However, the...
Andrew Love | 474 c1389-90 (Link to this contribution) Will my right hon. Friend congratulate the Mayor of London on not only the significant increase in t...
Tony McNulty | 474 c1388-9 (Link to this contribution) I agree, and my own borough is in the same position. The Opposition motion states:"““That this House...
Karen Buck | 474 c1388 (Link to this contribution) In the annual guide to what one pays and what one gets, my Conservative-controlled borough of Westmi...
Tony McNulty | 474 c1389 (Link to this contribution) Many of the recommendations in the Smith review came out of that cross-party initiative on criminal ...
Simon Hughes | 474 c1389 (Link to this contribution) I commend the Minister on his approach. I am not here to defend the current Mayor in the election ca...
Speaker | 474 c1390 (Link to this contribution) Order. The Minister knows what I am about to say; perhaps he would like to correct himself.
Tony McNulty | 474 c1390 (Link to this contribution) Again, I agree; my hon. Friend has mentioned another dimension. I agree absolutely that four murders...
Dawn Butler | 474 c1390 (Link to this contribution) In my constituency in Brent, murders decreased from 10 to four in 2006-07, which is the reality of t...
Simon Hughes | 474 c1391 (Link to this contribution) I am very grateful to the Minister; I shall not intervene on him again. Many of us, across the parti...
Tony McNulty | 474 c1390-1 (Link to this contribution) Yes, of course I accept that; that is partly what the changes to the national crime recording standa...
Angela Watkinson | 474 c1390 (Link to this contribution) Will the Minister acknowledge that crime statistics from whatever source—a council, the Metropolitan...
Tony McNulty | 474 c1390 (Link to this contribution) If you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, did not correct me, my right hon. Friend the Minister for London would h...
Andrew Dismore | 474 c1391 (Link to this contribution) To square the circle, the hon. Member for Henley (Mr. Johnson) was hardly here the last time we deba...
Tony McNulty | 474 c1391 (Link to this contribution) Let us be fair: the hon. Member for Henley gave us 40 minutes, which probably stretched his attentio...
Tony McNulty | 474 c1391-2 (Link to this contribution) I am afraid that we get that sort of thing all the time. Much of the antisocial behaviour legislatio...
Tony McNulty | 474 c1392 (Link to this contribution) I can tell my right hon. Friend that it has been replicated across London boroughs. The most interes...
Joan Ryan | 474 c1392 (Link to this contribution) I do not know whether my right hon. Friend has yet had time to read ““Enfield Council News””, which ...
Tony McNulty | 474 c1392 (Link to this contribution) Those statistics matter and show what is going on in reality.
Tony McNulty | 474 c1392 (Link to this contribution) I was not sure if the hon. Gentleman was rising—of course I will.
Tony McNulty | 474 c1392 (Link to this contribution) That is almost beyond contempt and quite shameful in the context of 27 times pain and tragedy for lo...
Robert Neill | 474 c1392 (Link to this contribution) I thank the Minister for giving way in his ever-courteous manner. Given that he claims that the Gove...
Speaker | 474 c1396 (Link to this contribution) Order. I suggest to the hon. Gentleman that he think about the matters that we are debating today an...
Tom Brake | 474 c1396-7 (Link to this contribution) Thank you for that intervention, Mr. Deputy Speaker. I had concluded those remarks. The hon. Member ...
Tony McNulty | 474 c1395-6 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend is right. On a range of other policies, we have heard nothing substantially new. Th...
Tom Brake | 474 c1396 (Link to this contribution) This is definitely the debate that Londoners want us to have just one week ahead of the mayoral elec...
Tony McNulty | 474 c1394-5 (Link to this contribution) Yes we are, as Ronnie Flanagan said in his report and, I hope, as we will say in some depth in the f...
Andrew Dismore | 474 c1395 (Link to this contribution) I am pleased that the Mayor, if he is re-elected, has identified the resources for an extra 1,000 po...
Tony McNulty | 474 c1393 (Link to this contribution) I take your admonition entirely, Mr. Deputy Speaker. In the third or fourth paragraph that I read, ...
David Evennett | 474 c1394 (Link to this contribution) I shall try to be constructive, but is it not true that the police are spending less time on patrol ...
Tony McNulty | 474 c1393 (Link to this contribution) No—absolutely not Pontius Pilate.
Speaker | 474 c1393 (Link to this contribution) Order. May I suggest to the House that we try to lower the temperature a little? Nothing is gained b...
Harry Cohen | 474 c1399 (Link to this contribution) I would like to raise with the hon. Gentleman the issue that I raised with the hon. Member for Bury ...
Tom Brake | 474 c1399 (Link to this contribution) I thank the hon. Gentleman for his intervention. I am afraid, however, that it is not really appropr...
Andrew Love | 474 c1399 (Link to this contribution) This is, indeed, an incredibly serious problem. I want sincerely to ask the hon. Gentleman whether t...
Tom Brake | 474 c1398 (Link to this contribution) I thank my hon. Friend for that intervention. I do not want to give the impression that everything i...
Chris Bryant | 474 c1398 (Link to this contribution) Before the hon. Gentleman moved on to the failures, he was talking about some successes. Does he agr...
Speaker | 474 c1398 (Link to this contribution) Order. I think that that is probably sufficient.
Tom Brake | 474 c1398-9 (Link to this contribution) I thank the hon. Gentleman for his intervention. Londoners, who live in a very diverse community, wi...
Robert Neill | 474 c1397 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman has made an interesting point about safer neighbourhood teams. Perhaps he will be...
David Ruffley | 474 c1380 (Link to this contribution) Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. I think that it is now time to—
Speaker | 474 c1380 (Link to this contribution) Order. Can the debate be conducted in an orderly manner?
Speaker | 474 c1380 (Link to this contribution) Order. It is obvious that the hon. Gentleman who is on his feet is not prepared to give way at this ...
David Ruffley | 474 c1380 (Link to this contribution) We could trade statistics all day—[Interruption.]
David Ruffley | 474 c1379 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend is entirely right. I shall come specifically to the point about the rising number of ...
David Ruffley | 474 c1379 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman would do well to listen to the BCS London figures and the MPS figures that I have...
David Ruffley | 474 c1379 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman has made half of a good point, in the sense that there is confusion and a bit of ...
David Ruffley | 474 c1382 (Link to this contribution) Not in the least, because no one in this House, and I hope that the hon. Lady is not an exception, t...
Dawn Butler | 474 c1380 (Link to this contribution) Does the hon. Gentleman agree that the Leader of the Opposition was being extremely disingenuous whe...
David Ruffley | 474 c1380-1 (Link to this contribution) I direct the hon. Lady to the review by Sir Ronnie Flanagan that was published in the first week of ...
David Ruffley | 474 c1380 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful, Madam Deputy Speaker. Solutions are surely what we should be talking about. They al...
Graham Stuart | 474 c1383 (Link to this contribution) It is not surprising that the Mayor is not in sympathy with the naturally law-abiding citizens of Lo...
Robert Neill | 474 c1383 (Link to this contribution) Are not my hon. Friend's last point and the point made by my hon. Friend the Member for Putney (Just...
Tony McNulty | 474 c1387 (Link to this contribution) Absolutely not, given the hysterical nonsense that we have just had, and I will come on to why it wa...
David Ruffley | 474 c1385-6 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend anticipates me. Our proposal is for instant access real-time live CCTV. It has taken ...
David Ruffley | 474 c1385 (Link to this contribution) I am afraid that that was not a serious intervention. Moving on from buses to suburban railway stati...
Keith Vaz | 474 c1386 (Link to this contribution) Has the hon. Gentleman had the opportunity to see the evidence given to the Select Committee in our ...
David Ruffley | 474 c1386-7 (Link to this contribution) The right hon. Gentleman is right, but he surely recognises that viewing must take place anyway. We ...
David Ruffley | 474 c1383-4 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend makes a typically powerful point. The current London Mayor—I hope we do not have him ...
David Ruffley | 474 c1381-2 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman asks a very long question, but it has a very simple answer: we will not cut that ...
David Ruffley | 474 c1377 (Link to this contribution) I agree, and statistics show that offences against and assaults on police officers have risen in the...
Tom Brake | 474 c1397-8 (Link to this contribution) It is certainly a case for ensuring that the procurement process works correctly. I am sure that all...
Boris Johnson | 474 c1385 (Link to this contribution) It may help my hon. Friend to know that the proposal is for live CCTV on buses. As I think the right...
Speaker | 474 c1410 (Link to this contribution) Order. Before I call the next speaker, may I say that we do not have a great deal of time left? If c...
Speaker | 474 c1408 (Link to this contribution) Order. The point that I am making is on an important issue for the House. I wish the hon. Gentleman ...
James Brokenshire | 474 c1416-9 (Link to this contribution) It is a pleasure to follow my hon. Friend the Member for Bromley and Chislehurst (Robert Neill), who...
David Ruffley | 474 c1378 (Link to this contribution) That is a tired canard and it is not worth replying to it. We have gone round the track on that many...
Simon Hughes | 474 c1398 (Link to this contribution) All these things are important, but does my hon. Friend accept that what matters most to all our con...
Lee Scott | 474 c1410 (Link to this contribution) I thank the hon. Gentleman for his comments. I should be delighted to answer his remarks about swimm...
Tony McNulty | 474 c1390 (Link to this contribution) Absolutely. In terms of the pace of introduction, that took place in the teeth of Conservative oppos...
David Ruffley | 474 c1382 (Link to this contribution) I was going to come on to my hon. Friend's proposals to meet the concerns of my hon. Friend the Memb...
Subjects
Crime prevention Crime Anti-social behaviour British Transport Police Finance Handguns Greater London Homicide Drugs Police Organised crime Misuse Offensive weapons Statistics Standards Stop and search Young people Gangs
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