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Debate on bill on Wednesday, 11 June 2008, in the House of Lords.

European Union (Amendment) Bill

European Union (Amendment) Bill. Lords report stage third day. Part 1 of 2 records.

Secondary information

Type
Parliamentary proceeding
Reference
702 c578-639 
Session
2007-08
Department
Foreign and Commonwealth Office
Legislative stage
Report stage
Chamber / Committee
House of Lords chamber
Related items
Proceeding contributions
Show all contributions (129)
Baroness Williams of Crosby | 702 c616 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, it is not about one thing, one principle, one vision, one purpose. It is about a whole rag...
Lord Willoughby de Broke | 702 c616 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, under the elections and referendums Act, surely the public would be entitled to form their...
Baroness Williams of Crosby | 702 c616 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I take the noble Lord’s point, but you cannot catch up with seven years’ not knowing in, a...
Baroness Williams of Crosby | 702 c614-6 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I am grateful to be the third Liberal Democrat to speak at this debate. I begin by saying ...
Lord Kerr of Kinlochard | 702 c618 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I may be wrong. Perhaps we could hear. Perhaps people will tell us which way they will vot...
Lord Kerr of Kinlochard | 702 c617-8 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I rise not because of the reference made by the noble Lord, Lord Howell of Guildford, to S...
Baroness O'Cathain | 702 c618 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, how does the noble Lord reach that conclusion? Has he done a poll? Has he taken a sample? ...
Lord Kerr of Kinlochard | 702 c618-9 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I came to that conclusion by an eccentric method—I sat here through rather long debates. ...
Lord Bach | 702 c617 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, it is the turn of the Cross Benches. Perhaps the two noble Lords could decide between them...
Lord Radice | 702 c623-4 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, we have had an impressive debate with some powerful speeches, but the speech of the noble ...
Lord Howell of Guildford | 702 c622 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, my noble friend is talking about one of my old bosses, as well, who I greatly admired and,...
Lord Patten of Barnes | 702 c622-3 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, as my noble friend spoke, I was leafing through the debate of 14 July 1993. Thus far, I ha...
Lord Moran | 702 c623 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, treading gingerly on a ground on which a succession of political heavyweights have precede...
Lord Campbell of Alloway | 702 c619-20 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, would the noble Lord agree that it is within the constitutional obligation of the House, a...
Lord Stoddart of Swindon | 702 c620 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, this House has the right and duty to speak its mind, discuss things in detail and, if it t...
Lord Patten of Barnes | 702 c620-2 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, like my noble and learned friend Lord Howe, I have always been against referendums. To tak...
Lord Stoddart of Swindon | 702 c619 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, this treaty is full of important matters, but I am not going to go into those because this...
Lord Pearson of Rannoch | 702 c626-7 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, your Lordships would do well to think on it. The heart of our democracy is that the people...
Lord Pearson of Rannoch | 702 c625-6 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I was just trying to sum up, for some of your Lordships who have not followed the story in...
Lord Dykes | 702 c625 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I am asking a question. Does he agree that the British newspapers occasionally, reluctantl...
Lord Pearson of Rannoch | 702 c624-5 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I am aware that I have become unusually controversial in your Lordships' House on this sub...
Lord Dykes | 702 c625 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I apologise for interrupting the Second Reading speech that the noble Lord is making yet a...
Earl Ferrers | 702 c627-8 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I realise that making an intervention at this hour of the night is pretty dangerous stuff,...
Lord Pearson of Rannoch | 702 c627 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I thought I made it clear that I was referring to my party. Our debates thus far have lar...
Baroness Ashton of Upholland | 702 c632 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I am well aware that the case was adjourned yesterday evening, but the decision has not ye...
Lord Blackwell | 702 c631 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, perhaps I may just let the noble Baroness know that I did check that it was appropriate be...
Baroness Ashton of Upholland | 702 c629-31 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I begin by echoing the sentiment of the noble Lord, Lord McNally, about the quality of the...
Lord McNally | 702 c628-9 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, my greatly missed friend, Lord Richard Holme, used to remind me of an American chairman wh...
Lord Howell of Guildford | 702 c634 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, the noble Lord attended some of the earlier debates but he did not attend the ones where I...
Lord Kinnock | 702 c634 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, before the noble Lord sits down, can he now use the last part of his speech to answer the ...
Lord Howell of Guildford | 702 c632-4 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I knew that this would be a superb debate and it has been. I feel privileged and humble to...
Lord Howell of Guildford | 702 c635 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, that is the position in which the Government have found themselves. I was talking about Pa...
Lord Bach | 702 c639 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I beg to move that further consideration on Report be now adjourned. In doing so I suggest...
Baroness Ashton of Upholland | 702 c639 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I want to repeat to noble Lords the figures for the vote because the Monitor is wrong. The...
Baroness Royall of Blaisdon | 702 c639 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I urge noble Lords to leave the Chamber because we are about the start the next debate.
Lord Anderson of Swansea | 702 c583 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, the noble Lord misses the basic point. That pledge was in respect of the constitution.
Lord Forsyth of Drumlean | 702 c583 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I am grateful to the noble Lord, who has impeccable democratic credentials. Can he not see...
Lord Anderson of Swansea | 702 c582-3 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, that red line was maintained. If the noble Lord took the trouble to read the report prepar...
Lord Anderson of Swansea | 702 c582 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, the noble Lord has argued his case well and deserves tribute from all of us for the way in...
Lord Lamont of Lerwick | 702 c582 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, the noble Lord says that a new element is the freedom of the Government to have their own ...
Lord Howell of Guildford | 702 c581-2 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I am sorry but I did not hear every word that the noble Baroness said. She is experienced ...
Lord Howell of Guildford | 702 c581 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I am sure they will have a lively debate on this issue and no doubt the same point will be...
Lord Harrison | 702 c580 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, will the noble Lord recommend to his colleagues at the other end of the House that when th...
Lord Howell of Guildford | 702 c579-80 (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 29: 29: Clause 8, page 4, line 2, leave out ““Section 3”” and insert ““Section...
Baroness Ashton of Upholland | 702 c578-9 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I beg to move that the Bill be now further considered on Report. Moved accordingly, and, ...
Lord Anderson of Swansea | 702 c583-4 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, my judgment is that this treaty is sufficiently different from the constitution to merit a...
Lord Elton | 702 c584 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, surely that is the whole point. Europe would then be under a necessity of discovering what...
Lord Anderson of Swansea | 702 c584 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I am interested in learning from the noble Lord how one so ascertains; should one have ano...
Lord Wallace of Saltaire | 702 c584-5 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, we on these Benches must start by congratulating the Conservative Front Bench on correctin...
Lord Campbell of Alloway | 702 c586 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, the noble Lord referred to renegotiation. I respectfully ask whether it is the policy of t...
Lord Wallace of Saltaire | 702 c586 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, the noble Lord may have misunderstood me. Many on his Benches want the next Conservative G...
Lord Forsyth of Drumlean | 702 c585 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I ask the noble Lord to return to the point that he himself raised, which was the right ho...
Lord Forsyth of Drumlean | 702 c585 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I mean the Liberal party; the two are very difficult to distinguish in this House. Why do ...
Lord Wallace of Saltaire | 702 c586 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, perhaps the noble Lord, Lord Forsyth, has not seen the letter that William Hague sent yest...
Lord Stoddart of Swindon | 702 c587 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, the noble Lord simply cannot get away with this. The Conservative Party is in a quite diff...
Lord Wallace of Saltaire | 702 c587 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I believe that the noble Lord, Lord Howell, was in the House at that point. I think I obse...
Lord Hamilton of Epsom | 702 c587 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, my name was attached to that amendment and I spent some time explaining that I was not a m...
Lord Howell of Guildford | 702 c586 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, the Liberal Democrat policy is more bewildering. The other day we had an amendment on prec...
Lord Ramsbotham | 702 c589 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I have added my name to this amendment because of a simple word which has already been quo...
Lord Howell of Guildford | 702 c587 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I must not interrupt too much but in 1973 I took through the House of Commons a Bill for a...
Lord Clinton-Davis | 702 c588-9 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, whatever the noble Lord says, I do not believe in referenda, and I have said that. I belie...
Lord Wallace of Saltaire | 702 c587 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I do not wish to detain the House. I simply wish to say that the position of my party thro...
Lord Clinton-Davis | 702 c587 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I do not believe in referenda, and the Conservative Party has previously shared that view....
Baroness Deech | 702 c610 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, perhaps I may raise a point about the constitution. We in this country, unlike the rest of...
Baroness Symons of Vernham Dean | 702 c609-10 (Link to this contribution) Again, my Lords, the noble Lord is sidestepping the point I am making. I am not talking about what t...
Lord Forsyth of Drumlean | 702 c609 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I have a different point. It is serious; I am genuinely seeking information from the noble...
Lord Lamont of Lerwick | 702 c611-3 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, it is this side now. We have heard from the Cross-Benches. The noble Lord, Lord Neill, spo...
Baroness Ashton of Upholland | 702 c610 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I want to make the same point as before; I will be completely consistent. At this stage no...
Baroness Symons of Vernham Dean | 702 c610-1 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, at the end of the noble Baroness’s intervention she asked whether my point was a red herri...
Baroness Deech | 702 c610 (Link to this contribution) Does the noble Baroness not agree that this is simply a red herring?
Baroness Ashton of Upholland | 702 c614 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I am very happy if the noble Lord, Lord Kerr, speaks.
Baroness Ashton of Upholland | 702 c613 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, there have been only two Liberal Democrat speakers, so they are probably owed an extra spe...
Lord Maclennan of Rogart | 702 c604-5 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, the challenge is to follow that. I heard the noble Lord, Lord Owen, describe a part of Bri...
Lord Sentamu | 702 c604 (Link to this contribution) Then why, my Lords, are we making this fuss?
Lord Maclennan of Rogart | 702 c605 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I accept that entirely and I was coming to that point. I take the view that the treaty of ...
Lord Vinson | 702 c605-6 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I am grateful to the noble Lord for giving way. As a member of his party mentioned my name...
Baroness Quin | 702 c605 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I am grateful to the noble Lord for giving way. In order to reinforce his point, I refer t...
Lord Maclennan of Rogart | 702 c606 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, the Lisbon treaty is of such a different order of magnitude that many of the countries tha...
Baroness Ashton of Upholland | 702 c606 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I am sorry, I always seem to be doing this to the noble Lord, but interventions need to be...
Lord Maclennan of Rogart | 702 c606 (Link to this contribution) No, my Lords, I wish to finish this point. Those who are treating this as a matter which could be ea...
Lord Neill of Bladen | 702 c606-8 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I am the last of the four who put their names to the amendment to speak, so perhaps the no...
Baroness Symons of Vernham Dean | 702 c608-9 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, perhaps I can come back to the fundamental case put by the noble Lord, Lord Howell of Guil...
Lord Blackwell | 702 c609 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, the noble Baroness says that no one challenges that. I put it to her that all of us who ha...
Baroness Symons of Vernham Dean | 702 c609 (Link to this contribution) My Lords that is not the point I am making. I am not arguing that there are not similarities; of cou...
Baroness Symons of Vernham Dean | 702 c609 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I have answered that point and I would like to get on.
Lord Brittan of Spennithorne | 702 c602-3 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I assure my noble friend that the last thing in the world I wanted to do was to express an...
Lord Campbell of Alloway | 702 c602 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I am very much obliged to my noble friend. May I ask a very simple question? I hope that h...
Lord Brittan of Spennithorne | 702 c602 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I am not going to give way again. I have given way once and I have dealt with the point, f...
Lord Brittan of Spennithorne | 702 c602 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, the personal imputation, laid by somebody who has previously been my noble friend, is bene...
Lord Elton | 702 c601-2 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, can my noble friend not see what he is doing? What the public outside the House see is a f...
Lord Sentamu | 702 c604 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, will this Parliament still be the highest court in the land?
Lord Sentamu | 702 c604 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, will foreign policy, defence policy and law and order still be governed by this country?
Lord Sentamu | 702 c603-4 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I listened to the noble Lord, Lord Ramsbotham, and was persuaded by his argument on trust ...
Baroness Ashton of Upholland | 702 c603 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, for obvious reasons, I am not trying to work out exactly whose turn it is to speak, but th...
Lord Howe of Aberavon | 702 c595 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, perhaps not all my arguments are as sound as each other. There may not be much strength in...
Lord Elton | 702 c595 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, if we are not here to correct the errors of the democratically elected Chamber, what are w...
Lord Tomlinson | 702 c591-2 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, some rather intemperate accusations have been made, such as a ““breach of trust with the B...
Lord Blackwell | 702 c589-91 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, it is a great privilege to follow the noble Lord, Lord Ramsbotham. As he says, the questio...
Lord Howe of Aberavon | 702 c594 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I am not going to become a prophet, but it is going to be doubly difficult to have confide...
Lord Gilbert | 702 c594 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, the noble and learned Lord keeps saying that certain referenda went the wrong way. Leaving...
Lord Howe of Aberavon | 702 c592-4 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I proceed with some hesitation and anxiety. It is not the first time in my career that I f...
Lord Brittan of Spennithorne | 702 c601 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, if my noble friend allows me to finish the point, I shall certainly give way. That is some...
Lord Bruce-Lockhart | 702 c595-6 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, thank you very much. I apologise to the House for having been unable to take part in the d...
Baroness Ashton of Upholland | 702 c595 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I am conscious that the noble Lord, Lord Bruce-Lockhart, wanted to get in earlier, but it ...
Lord Bruce-Lockhart | 702 c596-7 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, the vast number of people I speak to all say exactly the same thing: they voted for a Euro...
Lord Lea of Crondall | 702 c596 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I am grateful to the noble Lord for giving way, but this is—to go back to his French lesso...
Lord Brittan of Spennithorne | 702 c600-1 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I, like my noble and learned friend Lord Howe, greatly regret that this is a rare occasion...
Lord Owen | 702 c597-600 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I rise to support a referendum and to concentrate some of my remarks on those made by the ...
Baroness Ludford | 702 c581 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I apologise to the noble Lord and thank him for giving way. He is talking a lot about prom...
Subjects
Constitutions EU law European Union EU institutions Referendums Sovereignty UK membership of EU European Court of Justice Treaty of Lisbon
Legislation
European Union (Amendment) Bill 2007-08
Link
View this Parliamentary proceeding on www.publications.parliament.uk