Parliamentary Search

Debate on Monday, 8 December 2008, in the House of Commons, led by Baroness Harman. The answering member was Baroness May of Maidenhead.

Speaker's Committee on the Search of Offices on the Parliamentary Estate

Debate on a motion that, following the search of a Member's office in the Parliamentary Estate by the police and the seizure of material therein, a committee be appointed to review the internal processes of the House administration for granting permission for such action, and to make recommendations for the future; and that as the committee must not in any way prejudice any police inquiry or potential criminal proceedings and that therefore it will be adjourned immediately after choosing a chairman until the completion of any relevant inquiry or proceedings that may follow. Amendment negatived on division (285 to 281). Main question agreed on division (293 to 270).

Secondary information

Type
Parliamentary proceeding
Reference
485 c255-305 
Session
2008-09
Department
Leader of the House of Commons
Chamber / Committee
House of Commons chamber
Proceeding contributions
Lord Garnier | 485 c257 (Link to this contribution) Could the Leader of the House confirm that when the motion states that"““the committee must not in a...
Baroness Harman | 485 c257 (Link to this contribution) Let me set out my answer to the hon. and learned Gentleman's point. There are two problems here. Th...
Show all contributions (170)
Baroness Harman | 485 c257 (Link to this contribution) As an hon. and learned Gentleman, he should know that it is certainly possible for prejudicial state...
Lord Robathan | 485 c257 (Link to this contribution) I understand that the Leader of the House began her legal career with the National Council for Civil...
Baroness Harman | 485 c257 (Link to this contribution) I will press on with my argument because I hope that it is helpful to the House. That is why Prime ...
Baroness Harman | 485 c258 (Link to this contribution) I think that I am showing a proper understanding that justice in this country is a matter for police...
Speaker | 485 c258 (Link to this contribution) Order. Temperate language is what we need, please.
Baroness Harman | 485 c258 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend is right. That is why I asked the House to resist the amendments that would have the ...
Tony Wright | 485 c258 (Link to this contribution) The precedent of the Select Committee inquiry into the so-called cash-for-honours affair has been ci...
Dominic Grieve | 485 c258 (Link to this contribution) I come back to my point: there is no necessity for the House to fetter the Committee because it can ...
Speaker | 485 c259 (Link to this contribution) Order. The Leader of the House is not giving way.
Baroness Harman | 485 c259 (Link to this contribution) If a search was undertaken as part of an ongoing police investigation, it is important that we shoul...
Lynne Jones | 485 c258 (Link to this contribution) I would like some light to be shed on the legal advice that, according to Assistant Commissioner Qui...
Baroness Harman | 485 c258 (Link to this contribution) It is not for anyone to substitute their view for the judgment of the Crown Prosecution Service abou...
Baroness May of Maidenhead | 485 c259-60 (Link to this contribution) This debate is about one thing and one thing only: to put into practice the wish expressed by you, M...
Baroness Harman | 485 c259 (Link to this contribution) I am moving on to make one further point. While the police are accountable, too, to police authorit...
Baroness Harman | 485 c259 (Link to this contribution) The first principle that I urge the House to be vigilant to protect is that it is essential for the ...
Adam Ingram | 485 c260 (Link to this contribution) Will the right hon. Lady give way?
Speaker | 485 c270 (Link to this contribution) Order. The amendment is on the Order Paper now.
Simon Hughes | 485 c270 (Link to this contribution) One of the things that I think all colleagues point out when we show friends and visitors around the...
Frank Dobson | 485 c268 (Link to this contribution) I have already said that I am surprised that the procedure was different in the case of the hon. Mem...
Martin Horwood | 485 c268 (Link to this contribution) Will the right hon. Gentleman give way?
Frank Dobson | 485 c269 (Link to this contribution) No. Once we have done that, and only after we have done that, the Speaker, the Clerk of the Commons...
Lord Bellingham | 485 c269 (Link to this contribution) Will the right hon. Gentleman give way?
Speaker | 485 c269 (Link to this contribution) I will look into the matter.
Tom Harris | 485 c269 (Link to this contribution) On a point of order, Mr. Speaker. Today I returned to my office in the House of Commons, on the Uppe...
Frank Dobson | 485 c267-8 (Link to this contribution) I go on to say, then—I hope that the hon. Member for Ashford will agree with me—that I am astonished...
Brian Binley | 485 c268 (Link to this contribution) I think that the right hon. Gentleman will know that my predecessor was treated by the police in exa...
Bernard Jenkin | 485 c267 (Link to this contribution) On a point of order, Mr. Speaker. If a right hon. or hon. Member were going to make an attack of a p...
Speaker | 485 c267 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman concerned is clearly in the House and has an opportunity to rebut the matter, whi...
Damian Green | 485 c267 (Link to this contribution) The Leader of the House suggested that nobody should say anything prejudicial in this case. May I re...
Frank Dobson | 485 c267 (Link to this contribution) No, I shall not. The police proceeded with their investigation and arrested a civil servant, who ha...
Speaker | 485 c267 (Link to this contribution) Order. I ask again that hon. Members allow the right hon. Gentleman to speak.
Frank Dobson | 485 c267 (Link to this contribution) I have seen the legal representative of the civil servant on television, and his lawyer in effect ad...
Speaker | 485 c267 (Link to this contribution) Order. Let the right hon. Gentleman speak.
Lord Redwood | 485 c267 (Link to this contribution) Will the right hon. Gentleman give way?
Baroness May of Maidenhead | 485 c266 (Link to this contribution) No. I am not going to give way any more. Last week, the Leader of the House implied that operationa...
Baroness May of Maidenhead | 485 c266 (Link to this contribution) No. I am not going to give way any more. Mr. Speaker, I set out earlier why I believe that the Gove...
Frank Dobson | 485 c266-7 (Link to this contribution) The situation that we are debating today is serious, and the issues that it raises need to be seriou...
Elfyn Llwyd | 485 c265 (Link to this contribution) Does the right hon. Lady agree that it seems rather strange that we should be discussing the whole i...
Baroness May of Maidenhead | 485 c265 (Link to this contribution) I am conscious that a large number of Members want to speak in the debate, so I wish to make progres...
Fraser Kemp | 485 c266 (Link to this contribution) Will the right hon. Lady give way?
Baroness May of Maidenhead | 485 c265-6 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman has made an interesting intervention. I now move on to the issue of why the inqu...
Speaker | 485 c264 (Link to this contribution) The right hon. Lady is in order.
Baroness May of Maidenhead | 485 c264-5 (Link to this contribution) Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I was going on to say that of course it would be wrong for the House to pre...
Baroness May of Maidenhead | 485 c264 (Link to this contribution) No. I listened carefully to the arguments advanced by the Leader of the House. She said, as she has ...
George Howarth | 485 c264 (Link to this contribution) On a point of order, Mr. Speaker. Will you reflect on the observations that the right hon. Lady has ...
Clive Efford | 485 c264 (Link to this contribution) Will the right hon. Lady give way?
Baroness May of Maidenhead | 485 c264 (Link to this contribution) No. I said that we held parliamentary privilege not on our own behalf, but on behalf of our constit...
Baroness May of Maidenhead | 485 c264 (Link to this contribution) No, I shall make more progress. I said earlier that we do not hold parliamentary privilege on our o...
Baroness May of Maidenhead | 485 c263 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman makes an extremely important point. There is no reason why the Speaker's Committe...
Gordon Prentice | 485 c263 (Link to this contribution) The Public Administration Committee, which is so ably chaired by my friend the Member for Cannock Ch...
Gerald Kaufman | 485 c275 (Link to this contribution) The hon. and learned Gentleman has been widely quoted by the press as having said that the man shoul...
Martin Horwood | 485 c275 (Link to this contribution) Will the right hon. Gentleman give way?
Gerald Kaufman | 485 c275 (Link to this contribution) I will see how the timing goes. Professor Bradley, professor of constitutional law at Edinburgh uni...
Gerald Kaufman | 485 c275 (Link to this contribution) Let me finish my sentence, for God's sake. A person"““who is under arrest for an arrestable offence...
Speaker | 485 c275 (Link to this contribution) Order. I ask Members to allow the right hon. Gentleman to speak.
Gerald Kaufman | 485 c275-6 (Link to this contribution) The sentence continues:"““that there is on the premises evidence, other than items subject to legal ...
Gerald Kaufman | 485 c276 (Link to this contribution) May I proceed for a moment? The police did what they had a perfect right to do under a statute pass...
Rob Marris | 485 c275 (Link to this contribution) On this very issue, may I say to my right hon. Friend—
Speaker | 485 c275 (Link to this contribution) Order. That is not a point of order; it is a matter for debate.
Gerald Kaufman | 485 c274 (Link to this contribution) I will certainly give way to the hon. and learned Gentleman in a moment. The hon. Gentleman's party...
Gerald Kaufman | 485 c274 (Link to this contribution) I will give way to the shadow Home Secretary.
Gerald Kaufman | 485 c274 (Link to this contribution) May I be allowed to develop my argument? There is consequently a case for the police having arrested...
Dominic Grieve | 485 c274 (Link to this contribution) Will the right hon. Gentleman give way?
Gerald Kaufman | 485 c274 (Link to this contribution) What puzzles me, in view of that bout of rodomontade from the hon. and learned Gentleman, is why he ...
Martin Horwood | 485 c274 (Link to this contribution) Will the right hon. Gentleman give way?
Gerald Kaufman | 485 c274 (Link to this contribution) Will the hon. Gentleman allow me to continue for a moment? If it is true that the civil servant did...
Gerald Kaufman | 485 c273-4 (Link to this contribution) After a chance conversation last week with a respected Conservative Member of the House, I have foll...
Simon Hughes | 485 c272-3 (Link to this contribution) I have dealt with secrecy. The answer is that all Committees have the power to meet in secret for so...
Simon Hughes | 485 c273 (Link to this contribution) No, I must make progress. None of us wants to send out the message that there is never a time or pl...
Simon Hughes | 485 c272 (Link to this contribution) That is a good argument, demonstrating exactly how we should proceed. I said last week that I hoped...
Simon Hughes | 485 c272 (Link to this contribution) Let me make it clear that the amendments that we are talking about—amendments (b), (c) and (d) are n...
Norman Lamb | 485 c272 (Link to this contribution) Is it not also unfair on individuals such as the Serjeant at Arms and the Clerk for these matters to...
Simon Hughes | 485 c271 (Link to this contribution) It is completely wrong for the Leader of the House to seek to tie the hands of the House and this Co...
Lord Beith | 485 c271 (Link to this contribution) I put it to my hon. Friend that there is an even more compelling reason for urgency. When I asked th...
Simon Hughes | 485 c271 (Link to this contribution) Let me deal specifically with my right hon. Friend's absolutely accurate point. The motion in the na...
Simon Hughes | 485 c271 (Link to this contribution) Just before I give way to my right hon. Friend, I should say that you have been very clear, Mr. Spea...
Nicholas Winterton | 485 c270 (Link to this contribution) Although I entirely agree with everything that the hon. Gentleman has said, does he not believe that...
Simon Hughes | 485 c270-1 (Link to this contribution) I would say the following to the hon. Gentleman. You have made it clear, Mr. Speaker, that various p...
Denis MacShane | 485 c262 (Link to this contribution) I do not know how much, Mr. Speaker, you enjoy the right hon. Lady acting as your interpreter: ““Thi...
Baroness May of Maidenhead | 485 c262 (Link to this contribution) The right hon. Gentleman referred to the fact that I appeared to be interpreting Mr. Speaker's wishe...
Baroness May of Maidenhead | 485 c262 (Link to this contribution) I will give way to the right hon. Member for Rotherham (Mr. MacShane), then I will make progress.
Baroness May of Maidenhead | 485 c263 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend is entirely right. The Committee needs to meet so that we can learn the lessons of th...
Oliver Heald | 485 c263 (Link to this contribution) Is it not right that the protection that MPs have is that there should be due process of law? Is it ...
Baroness May of Maidenhead | 485 c263 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend is entirely right; he has considerable expertise in this area.
William Cash | 485 c263 (Link to this contribution) Does my right hon. Friend think that the Leader of the House has started out on a completely false p...
Baroness May of Maidenhead | 485 c263 (Link to this contribution) I said that I would give way to my hon. Friend the Member for Stone (Mr. Cash). After doing so, I sh...
Baroness May of Maidenhead | 485 c260 (Link to this contribution) No, I want to make some progress before I take interventions. I should have thought that it would b...
Lord Field of Birkenhead | 485 c260 (Link to this contribution) May I make a suggestion for the right hon. Lady to consider while we are holding the debate and befo...
Baroness May of Maidenhead | 485 c260 (Link to this contribution) I agree with my right hon. Friend that it is unacceptable for the Government to take Mr. Speaker's w...
Baroness May of Maidenhead | 485 c261 (Link to this contribution) I will complete this point before I take any interventions. The motion in the name of the Leader of ...
Baroness May of Maidenhead | 485 c260-1 (Link to this contribution) Absolutely. I entirely agree with the right hon. Gentleman, and I will make that same point towards ...
Baroness May of Maidenhead | 485 c261 (Link to this contribution) I entirely agree with my hon. Friend. The Leader of the House referred to the fact that Mr. Speaker ...
Lord Harper | 485 c261 (Link to this contribution) I should like to mention one of the reasons why it is important that the Committee should be able to...
Baroness May of Maidenhead | 485 c262 (Link to this contribution) I entirely agree that that is a matter of concern to all hon. Members. Indeed, the point made by the...
Baroness McIntosh of Pickering | 485 c261-2 (Link to this contribution) I thank my right hon. Friend for being so generous in giving way. Notably, the same cannot be said o...
Speaker | 485 c255 (Link to this contribution) I inform the House that I have selected amendments (b), (e), (c) and (d).
Baroness Harman | 485 c255 (Link to this contribution) I beg to move,"That, following the search of a Member's office in the Parliamentary Estate by the po...
Baroness Harman | 485 c255 (Link to this contribution) I shall be giving way, but I wish to develop my argument for a few moments. I know that hon. Member...
Baroness Harman | 485 c255-6 (Link to this contribution) I shall give way in a moment, because I know that hon. Members wish to intervene. We should remembe...
Dominic Grieve | 485 c256 (Link to this contribution) I thank the Leader of the House for giving way. She said at the outset of her remarks that she accep...
Baroness Harman | 485 c256 (Link to this contribution) As I develop my line, I will answer the points made by the hon. and learned Gentleman, as they also ...
Baroness Harman | 485 c256-7 (Link to this contribution) I shall give way later, when I have developed my argument. The motion before the House establishes ...
Lord Bellingham | 485 c287 (Link to this contribution) Will the right hon. Gentleman give way?
Keith Vaz | 485 c287-8 (Link to this contribution) I will not give way, because time is very short. To wait such a long time before Parliament has an ...
Keith Vaz | 485 c286-7 (Link to this contribution) I will not give way. My second point relates to the action of the police. I do not know whether rig...
Lord Clarke of Nottingham | 485 c288-90 (Link to this contribution) I am one of those Members, together with the hon. Member for Thurrock (Andrew Mackinlay), who put my...
Tony Wright | 485 c290-1 (Link to this contribution) I agree with the right hon. and learned Member for Rushcliffe (Mr. Clarke) on two things. The way in...
Keith Vaz | 485 c286 (Link to this contribution) Absolutely. The operational independence of the police is one of the fundamental principles of this ...
Lord Reid of Cardowan | 485 c286 (Link to this contribution) I want to put the record straight on this point. My intervention was precisely as my right hon. Frie...
Iain Duncan Smith | 485 c293 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend is absolutely right. In addition, there has been an element of party political knock...
Denis MacShane | 485 c293-4 (Link to this contribution) This has been an important debate, with constructive speeches from my right hon. Friend the Member f...
David Heath | 485 c294 (Link to this contribution) As a non-Privy Counsellor, it is a privilege to be able to participate, however briefly, in the deba...
Lord Cormack | 485 c299 (Link to this contribution) On a point of order, Mr. Speaker. This is a point of order for you, because the motion that the Hous...
Speaker | 485 c299 (Link to this contribution) The House has not agreed to any motion; it was an amendment that was put forward.
Simon Hughes | 485 c303 (Link to this contribution) On a point of order, Mr. Speaker. In the light of the two votes that we have just had, I thought tha...
Tony Wright | 485 c291-2 (Link to this contribution) No, I will not. Having said what I have about the case in question, I also think that when we consi...
Dominic Grieve | 485 c291 (Link to this contribution) Will the hon. Gentleman give way?
Iain Duncan Smith | 485 c292 (Link to this contribution) I know that we are fast running out of time and I wish to cover just two main points. I agree with a...
Lord Howard of Lympne | 485 c280 (Link to this contribution) It is a privilege to follow the hon. Member for Thurrock (Andrew Mackinlay), and I entirely endorse ...
Iain Duncan Smith | 485 c280-1 (Link to this contribution) I do not want to distract my right hon. and learned Friend, but he has just made a point that is wor...
Gordon Prentice | 485 c279 (Link to this contribution) The Metropolitan police told the Home Secretary, in a letter dated 3 December, that a warrant is not...
Andrew Mackinlay | 485 c279-80 (Link to this contribution) Mr. Speaker is correct, and he has reaffirmed what must always have been the norm. He has restated t...
Andrew Mackinlay | 485 c279 (Link to this contribution) I shall make an exception for my hon. Friend.
Lord Campbell of Pittenweem | 485 c276-7 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to see that amendment (e) stands not only in my name, but in the names of Members from...
Andrew Mackinlay | 485 c277-9 (Link to this contribution) I shall not be giving way, because of the time constraints. I wish to kick off with some slightly co...
Lord Howard of Lympne | 485 c281 (Link to this contribution) My right hon. Friend makes an excellent point to which there is no answer. What has happened over t...
Gerald Kaufman | 485 c276 (Link to this contribution) No, I will not give way, as I have only two minutes left. Those who have always hated the idea of th...
Dominic Grieve | 485 c283 (Link to this contribution) Does my right hon. Friend agree that if that is happening, it is entirely contrary to the intention ...
David Davis | 485 c283 (Link to this contribution) My hon. and learned Friend is entirely right.
Gerald Kaufman | 485 c284 (Link to this contribution) The right hon. Gentleman, in discussing the appropriateness of arrest, seems to be making a persuasi...
David Davis | 485 c284-5 (Link to this contribution) There were Members on this side of the House who criticised that action at the time: two wrongs do n...
Clive Efford | 485 c281 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to the right hon. and learned Gentleman for giving way, although usually Members resum...
Lord Howard of Lympne | 485 c281 (Link to this contribution) I am afraid that, as was only to be expected, the hon. Gentleman fails to understand the difference ...
Lord Field of Birkenhead | 485 c281-2 (Link to this contribution) I am pleased to follow the right hon. and learned Member for Folkestone and Hythe (Mr. Howard) and I...
David Davis | 485 c283 (Link to this contribution) I want to raise two set of points about the proposal. I support amendment (e), tabled by the right h...
Lord Howard of Lympne | 485 c281 (Link to this contribution) I will give way to the hon. Gentleman before I come to the end of my remarks.
Baroness May of Maidenhead | 485 c304 (Link to this contribution) Further to that point of order, Mr. Speaker. I feel it would also be courteous to the House and to y...
Speaker | 485 c304 (Link to this contribution) I make no comment on the right hon. Lady's first point. On the latter point, it is up to Committees ...
David Winnick | 485 c304 (Link to this contribution) On a point of order, Mr. Speaker. Those of us—whatever our numbers—who remain very concerned about t...
Speaker | 485 c304 (Link to this contribution) That is not a point of order, but I can tell the hon. Gentleman that the House has been able to acce...
Speaker | 485 c303 (Link to this contribution) The House has made its decision and it is best for me not to comment on the issues that the hon. Gen...
Richard Younger-Ross | 485 c304-5 (Link to this contribution) On a point of order, Mr. Speaker. Further to the question asked by the right hon. Member for Maidenh...
Speaker | 485 c304 (Link to this contribution) It is up to hon. Members to raise matters of privilege. It is not up to me.
Speaker | 485 c304 (Link to this contribution) That is not a point of order—it is something that the House already knows.
Lord Young of Cookham | 485 c304 (Link to this contribution) Further to that point of order, Mr. Speaker. You will know that the Standards and Privileges Committ...
Speaker | 485 c305 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman will recall that in response to another Member I said I would look into that ques...
Gerald Kaufman | 485 c275 (Link to this contribution) No, I will not give way again at this stage. I shall see whether I have more time later. What I want...
Dominic Grieve | 485 c274 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to the right hon. Gentleman. Since the passage of the Official Secrets Act 1989, the ...
Denis MacShane | 485 c272 (Link to this contribution) Will the hon. Gentleman clarify whether he as Front-Bench spokesman for the Liberal Democrats shares...
Simon Hughes | 485 c269-70 (Link to this contribution) This debate is about an important matter for the House, as everybody acknowledges, hence the large t...
Frank Dobson | 485 c268-9 (Link to this contribution) No, I have given way already. It has to be said that the Serjeant at Arms is unlikely to see the Me...
Dominic Grieve | 485 c275 (Link to this contribution) On a point of order, Mr. Speaker. I did not say that Christopher Galley should be sacked; I said tha...
Baroness May of Maidenhead | 485 c262-3 (Link to this contribution) I will make a little more progress before I accept any more interventions. This whole affair raises...
Lord Deben | 485 c260 (Link to this contribution) Would not my right hon. Friend agree that not to carry through in precise measure what Mr. Speaker h...
Keith Vaz | 485 c285-6 (Link to this contribution) This has been an important debate with some outstanding speeches, in particular those of the right h...
Lord Cormack | 485 c292-3 (Link to this contribution) Is my right hon. Friend aware that, 10 years ago, the Government set up a Joint Committee of both Ho...
Bernard Jenkin | 485 c304 (Link to this contribution) On a point of order, Mr. Speaker. Does anything that has occurred in the House today affect your pow...
Simon Hughes | 485 c272 (Link to this contribution) I will give way only one more time and then I am going to finish, as many other colleagues wish to s...
Subjects
House of Commons Powers of entry Police Powers Members Metropolitan Police Parliamentary privilege Offices Right of search Speaker Speaker's Committee on the Search of Offices on the Parliamentary Estate Department of Chamber and Committee Services Serjeant at Arms Directorate Green, Damian
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