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Backbench debate on Thursday, 9 September 2010, in the House of Commons, led by Peter Bone. The answering member was Liam Fox.

UK Armed Forces in Afghanistan

Third backbench debate. Amendment negatived on division (5 to 311). Main question agreed to on division (310 to 4).

Secondary information

Type
Parliamentary proceeding
Reference
515 c494-570, (corrigendum) 720;515 c494-570 
Session
2010-12
Department
Ministry of Defence
Chamber / Committee
House of Commons chamber
Proceeding contributions
Speaker | 515 c494 (Link to this contribution) Owing to the huge number of Members who wish to contribute, speaking time will be restricted to eigh...
Peter Bone | 515 c494 (Link to this contribution) I am not here today to express my personal view on the war. With respect to my hon. Friend, I think ...
Show all contributions (142)
Bob Stewart | 515 c495 (Link to this contribution) I thank my hon. Friend the Member for Wellingborough (Mr Bone) for introducing a motion that is so i...
David Winnick | 515 c495 (Link to this contribution) I, like every other Member of the House, pay tribute both to the British soldiers who have died in A...
Speaker | 515 c494 (Link to this contribution) Owing to the huge number of Members who wish to contribute, speaking time will be restricted to eigh...
Peter Bone | 515 c494 (Link to this contribution) I beg to move,"That this House supports the continued deployment of UK armed forces in Afghanistan."...
Liam Fox | 515 c510 (Link to this contribution) I give way, for the last time, to the hon. Lady.
Bob Russell | 515 c507 (Link to this contribution) This debate is taking place as troops from 16 Air Assault Brigade, Colchester garrison, prepare for ...
Liam Fox | 515 c507 (Link to this contribution) I completely agree that although the military element is absolutely essential it cannot be the only ...
Liam Fox | 515 c507 (Link to this contribution) I shall give way to both Members, but given the nature of the debate I then intend to make progress....
Angus Robertson | 515 c508 (Link to this contribution) Will the Secretary of State confirm that the central policy for the intervention in Afghanistan is s...
Liam Fox | 515 c508-10 (Link to this contribution) I shall come to a number of issues about the wider political element, but as the hon. Gentleman has ...
Lord Walney | 515 c507 (Link to this contribution) Members on both sides of the House will support the Secretary of State in what he has just said. Doe...
Liam Fox | 515 c507-8 (Link to this contribution) I completely agree. In fact, that issue is discussed even more widely—not just in the United Kingdom...
Liam Fox | 515 c506 (Link to this contribution) If the hon. Gentleman will allow me to, I shall come to withdrawal and the long-term implications in...
Derek Twigg | 515 c506 (Link to this contribution) Does the right hon. Gentleman think that the commitment to leave in five years, which he has backed,...
Mike Gapes | 515 c503-4 (Link to this contribution) I do not argue that we should have a vote every week or month, but from time to time it is important...
Rory Stewart | 515 c504 (Link to this contribution) How exactly would the collapse of Afghanistan affect Pakistan? Why is the hon. Gentleman so confiden...
Mike Gapes | 515 c504 (Link to this contribution) When the Foreign Affairs Committee visited Pakistan last year, we were in Islamabad when the Pakista...
Jonathan Edwards | 515 c504 (Link to this contribution) Will the hon. Gentleman give way on that point?
Mike Gapes | 515 c504-5 (Link to this contribution) No, I cannot take any more interventions; I have to conclude my remarks. I am conscious that we are...
Liam Fox | 515 c505-6 (Link to this contribution) It has been fashionable in some quarters to say that the House of Commons is increasingly irrelevant...
James Gray | 515 c503 (Link to this contribution) I absolutely agree. It is terribly important that this House should send a strong message of support...
Mike Gapes | 515 c503 (Link to this contribution) I welcome this debate, which is both timely and necessary. I agree with other hon. Members who belie...
Andrew Murrison | 515 c502-3 (Link to this contribution) That is a point that my hon. Friend has made before and he makes his views known in a very powerful ...
Julian Brazier | 515 c502 (Link to this contribution) I am most grateful to my hon. Friend for giving way, and he is making a truly excellent speech. As a...
Andrew Murrison | 515 c501-2 (Link to this contribution) I will certainly pay tribute to the men and women of our Defence Medical Services, that is for sure....
Andrew Murrison | 515 c500-1 (Link to this contribution) I start by declaring my interest as a member of the reserve forces. I commend the Government for the...
Baroness Stuart of Edgbaston | 515 c501 (Link to this contribution) I very much agree that we need to appreciate the contribution of our armed forces. In view of what t...
Paul Flynn | 515 c499-500 (Link to this contribution) No, I cannot, because I have given way twice. If we want evidence that the Government are in denial...
Julian Brazier | 515 c499 (Link to this contribution) Will the hon. Gentleman give way?
Paul Flynn | 515 c498-9 (Link to this contribution) No, I am certainly not, and the hon. Gentleman is right in what he says. Minister after Minister has...
Angus Robertson | 515 c498 (Link to this contribution) Does the hon. Gentleman agree that in addition to all those problems, massive challenges are affecti...
Paul Flynn | 515 c497 (Link to this contribution) Can we make something clear? The last speaker seemed to equate al-Qaeda with the Taliban. The Taliba...
Bob Stewart | 515 c496-7 (Link to this contribution) I am going to keep going, because I do not have much time left. We all know that we have a real pro...
Paul Flynn | 515 c497-8 (Link to this contribution) The situation now is that the Taliban are not in power because of al-Qaeda, as the Taliban well know...
Robert Smith | 515 c497 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman should reflect on the Taliban's relationship with the events of 9/11. While they ...
Bob Stewart | 515 c495 (Link to this contribution) Forgive me, I did not mean to imply the contrary. I accept what the hon. Gentleman says; it is quite...
Edward Leigh | 515 c496 (Link to this contribution) Following on from the previous intervention, does my hon. Friend agree that although our troops do n...
Bob Stewart | 515 c496 (Link to this contribution) Most certainly they do, and I accept that it is our job to question everything. The problem is that ...
Angus Robertson | 515 c496 (Link to this contribution) Will the hon. Gentleman give way?
James Gray | 515 c516-8 (Link to this contribution) It is a pleasure to follow the right hon. Member for Coventry North East (Mr Ainsworth). Unfashionab...
Bob Ainsworth | 515 c516 (Link to this contribution) As the right hon. and learned Gentleman knows, we will have the opportunity to discuss the defence r...
James Gray | 515 c518-9 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend makes a good point. Of course, the House is answerable to the public for what it does...
Rory Stewart | 515 c518 (Link to this contribution) Will my hon. Friend please tell us how the public are supposed to control a war or generals except t...
James Gray | 515 c519 (Link to this contribution) Of course, the hon. Lady is right. It would send out a strong signal, a wake-up call and all the oth...
Caroline Lucas | 515 c519 (Link to this contribution) As the person who tabled an amendment—and I would have liked to move it—calling for the withdrawal o...
Madeleine Moon | 515 c519-21 (Link to this contribution) Like other right hon. and hon. Members, I have taken great offence over the past week at comments by...
Bob Ainsworth | 515 c515-6 (Link to this contribution) That most certainly has the potential to encourage speculation. People will speculate that the helic...
David Hamilton | 515 c515 (Link to this contribution) Is it not also the case that not going ahead with the helicopter order allows speculation to continu...
Bob Ainsworth | 515 c515 (Link to this contribution) I have heard lots of reasons given for that, and we just heard another from the hon. Member for New ...
Derek Twigg | 515 c515 (Link to this contribution) Perhaps there is some clever strategy to say to Karzai, ““You've got to get your act together. We're...
Bob Ainsworth | 515 c515 (Link to this contribution) I know the hon. Gentleman's views and that he has tabled an amendment to the motion. He has spoken o...
Julian Lewis | 515 c515 (Link to this contribution) Does the shadow Secretary of State accept that the reason why both President Obama and our Prime Min...
Bob Ainsworth | 515 c514-5 (Link to this contribution) Yes, and I congratulate the Government on that. However, I would say to the hon. Gentleman that the ...
Matthew Offord | 515 c514 (Link to this contribution) The right hon. Gentleman has outlined what the Labour Government did, but will he also congratulate ...
Bob Ainsworth | 515 c513-4 (Link to this contribution) I want to begin by joining the Defence Secretary in paying tribute to those soldiers who have lost t...
Liam Fox | 515 c512-3 (Link to this contribution) The American Administration have made it very clear that they are talking about the beginning of dra...
Lord Campbell of Pittenweem | 515 c512 (Link to this contribution) I think that there are many in the House who want to hear the Secretary of State and welcome the opp...
Liam Fox | 515 c512 (Link to this contribution) I give way, for absolutely the last time, to my right hon. and learned Friend.
Paul Flynn | 515 c511 (Link to this contribution) On a point of order, Mr Deputy Speaker. This is a new procedure. It is a special privilege to have B...
Liam Fox | 515 c511 (Link to this contribution) I have taken several long interventions, and I am aware that this is the House's debate, not the Gov...
Liam Fox | 515 c511 (Link to this contribution) It is very rare, Mr Deputy Speaker, to be criticised by Back Benchers for taking up more time on the...
Speaker | 515 c511 (Link to this contribution) Front-Bench speakers have been notified of how many people wish to take part in this debate, and it ...
Liam Fox | 515 c510 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Lady makes an important point. I do not agree with her detailed analysis, but it is importa...
Yasmin Qureshi | 515 c510 (Link to this contribution) The right hon. Gentleman touched on Pakistan and the sacrifices that Pakistanis have made, but in th...
Liam Fox | 515 c511 (Link to this contribution) The Prime Minister made it very clear that, although we might have an extended role in Afghanistan, ...
Bob Ainsworth | 515 c510-1 (Link to this contribution) The Secretary of State knows that I agree with many things that he is saying, but I have one concern...
David Winnick | 515 c524 (Link to this contribution) Not for the moment. I want to make some progress. Members on both sides of the House have said that...
Sarah Wollaston | 515 c524 (Link to this contribution) Does the hon. Gentleman not accept that if we walk out of Afghanistan now, we will leave it to those...
David Winnick | 515 c523-4 (Link to this contribution) In view of what I am about to say, let me repeat what I said in an intervention on the hon. Member f...
Rehman Chishti | 515 c524 (Link to this contribution) Will the hon. Gentleman give way?
David Winnick | 515 c524 (Link to this contribution) Obviously no one in the House wants a bloodbath. As for whether Afghanistan would be left to the Tal...
Lord Arbuthnot of Edrom | 515 c521-2 (Link to this contribution) When we went to war in the autumn of 2001, unlike with Iraq, there was no serious disagreement over ...
Madeleine Moon | 515 c521 (Link to this contribution) No, I do not have enough time. Cornel West has said that"““peace is the presence of justice””." Th...
Lord Arbuthnot of Edrom | 515 c522-3 (Link to this contribution) I entirely agree. We must take not just our own public with us but the public of those countries whe...
Steve Baker | 515 c522 (Link to this contribution) My right hon. Friend may know that in Wycombe, Afghanistan is an issue of exquisite sensitivity. Man...
David Winnick | 515 c525 (Link to this contribution) I know that the hon. Gentleman is very eager to intervene, but I am limited by time. Those who take...
Julian Lewis | 515 c526-7 (Link to this contribution) I beg to move amendment (a), at end add—"'provided that a more realistic military strategy is adopte...
Robert Smith | 515 c527 (Link to this contribution) Does the hon. Gentleman think that the coalition's move to much more of a political engagement to tr...
Madeleine Moon | 515 c525 (Link to this contribution) It should be recognised that our troops are not there to impose education and new human rights stand...
David Winnick | 515 c525-6 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend does not answer the point I was making, however: how long will we be there for, beari...
Julian Lewis | 515 c528 (Link to this contribution) That is, of course, the reason for my amendment. I am saying that all the Governments are signed up ...
Jeremy Corbyn | 515 c529 (Link to this contribution) I am delighted that we are at last having a debate on the situation in Afghanistan and the deploymen...
Julian Lewis | 515 c527 (Link to this contribution) The answer to that is yes and no: yes in the sense that all counter-insurgencies end, eventually, wi...
David Winnick | 515 c527-8 (Link to this contribution) If the general has changed his view in such a substantial way, I welcome it. In my view, he has seen...
Baroness Hoey | 515 c529-30 (Link to this contribution) We have been told many times that one reason why we are in Afghanistan is to make us feel safer here...
Nadine Dorries | 515 c530 (Link to this contribution) Does the hon. Gentleman agree that if we were to withdraw, his constituents might then approach him ...
Jeremy Corbyn | 515 c530 (Link to this contribution) I live in and represent an inner-city area, and I have to say in all honesty that not one person in ...
Jeremy Corbyn | 515 c530 (Link to this contribution) Everybody wants protection from terrorism. Everybody wants protection from insecurity. My point is t...
Rehman Chishti | 515 c530 (Link to this contribution) Will the hon. Gentleman give way?
Jeremy Corbyn | 515 c530-1 (Link to this contribution) I shall not give way, as I have only two minutes left for my speech. Afghanistan is a country of de...
Rory Stewart | 515 c531 (Link to this contribution) I find this a very powerful, very troubling and very worrying motion. It states:"““That this House s...
Paul Flynn | 515 c531-2 (Link to this contribution) With the help of my hon. Friend the Member for Islington North (Jeremy Corbyn), I have just checked ...
Rory Stewart | 515 c532 (Link to this contribution) I thank the hon. Gentleman very much for his intervention, because it leads beautifully on to the se...
Jonathan Edwards | 515 c532 (Link to this contribution) Is not another way forward to create a new constitution for Afghanistan that decentralises power to ...
Rory Stewart | 515 c532-3 (Link to this contribution) I thank the hon. Gentleman for that intervention. Of course, Afghans must be allowed to do their own...
Geoffrey Robinson | 515 c534-5 (Link to this contribution) I am very pleased to be able to follow the hon. Member for Penrith and The Border (Rory Stewart), wh...
Rory Stewart | 515 c533-4 (Link to this contribution) I thank the hon. Gentleman. I am not suggesting that the Taliban are nice people. These threats, and...
Derek Twigg | 515 c533 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman seems to be suggesting—I have heard this in a number of spheres—that we abandon t...
Julian Lewis | 515 c536 (Link to this contribution) The correct time is when there is a stalemate, not when one side or the other thinks it is winning.
Geoffrey Robinson | 515 c536-7 (Link to this contribution) I agree, but it is difficult to send troops to fight in a stalemate. Even Mr Robert Gates, the US De...
Richard Graham | 515 c535 (Link to this contribution) Does the hon. Gentleman agree that his logic is the same as that of my hon. Friend the Member for Pe...
Geoffrey Robinson | 515 c536 (Link to this contribution) The coalition Government are realistic on the matter—I have privately congratulated the Defence Secr...
Julian Lewis | 515 c535 (Link to this contribution) On a purely procedural matter, there is nothing in the wording of my amendment that commits hon. Mem...
Geoffrey Robinson | 515 c535 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman is now at his most persuasive and irresistible best, and I will give the matter f...
John Baron | 515 c537-9 (Link to this contribution) I agree, and it reveals a wider problem of differences over strategy. The second aspect mentioned b...
Paul Flynn | 515 c537 (Link to this contribution) A further example of the optimism expressed by Government was in the Defence Secretary's contributio...
Baroness Clark of Kilwinning | 515 c539-40 (Link to this contribution) I commend the Backbench Business Committee on choosing the motion. If the Committee had existed in 2...
Caroline Lucas | 515 c547-9 (Link to this contribution) I start by echoing others in saying how much of a privilege it is to speak in this historic debate. ...
Jack Lopresti | 515 c541-2 (Link to this contribution) I am most grateful for the opportunity to speak in this important debate. I must begin by declaring ...
Lord Beamish | 515 c542 (Link to this contribution) I am intrigued to hear what the hon. Gentleman is saying. Will he explain how it squares with the de...
Jack Lopresti | 515 c542 (Link to this contribution) All I will say is that when I was in Afghanistan, we never had enough men on the ground or enough he...
Michael Meacher | 515 c543-4 (Link to this contribution) First, I congratulate the Backbench Business Committee on its choice of this subject, which I am sur...
Natascha Engel | 515 c564 (Link to this contribution) I thank the hon. Gentleman for that intervention, and he is right. Next Wednesday, the Committee wil...
John Hemming | 515 c564 (Link to this contribution) Perhaps such suggestions should be put to the Backbench Business Committee so that, in deciding what...
Natascha Engel | 515 c563-4 (Link to this contribution) It is a great pleasure to wind up the debate, which is the third tabled by the Backbench Business Co...
John Hemming | 515 c563 (Link to this contribution) As someone who intends to oppose the motion, I do not view doing so as meaning that I am not support...
Mark Lazarowicz | 515 c563 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman for his intervention. I shall explain my position, which I am su...
Christopher Pincher | 515 c561-2 (Link to this contribution) I do not think that I am to be the night watchman in this debate, but I shall be as brief as I can. ...
Mark Lazarowicz | 515 c562-3 (Link to this contribution) I had not originally intended to take part in the debate, but Members will recognise that I have bee...
Rehman Chishti | 515 c560 (Link to this contribution) Does my hon. Friend agree that we cannot make the mistake that was made in 1989, when the internatio...
Simon Reevell | 515 c560-1 (Link to this contribution) I do agree with that, but I shall come to that point in a moment, if I may. It is the Taliban who s...
Simon Reevell | 515 c559-60 (Link to this contribution) I support the continued deployment of our armed forces in Afghanistan, but I meet people who do not....
Baroness Stuart of Edgbaston | 515 c555-6 (Link to this contribution) It is an extremely valid observation to say that we had some plans that did not work. However, when ...
Rory Stewart | 515 c555 (Link to this contribution) But how exactly can we deal with corruption and civil structures? We have been trying for eight and ...
Sarah Newton | 515 c558-9 (Link to this contribution) Given the time, and the fact that the wind-up speeches need to begin, I will be brief—[Interruption....
John Glen | 515 c556-8 (Link to this contribution) There are considerable military interests in my constituency, so I feel compelled to offer my perspe...
John McDonnell | 515 c550-2 (Link to this contribution) I pay tribute to the Backbench Business Committee for allowing us to have this debate, and to the Me...
Speaker | 515 c552 (Link to this contribution) Order. Seven speakers have indicated that they wish to speak, so, if each of you could bear that in ...
Richard Drax | 515 c552-4 (Link to this contribution) Madam Deputy Speaker, thank you very much, indeed. The last time that you allowed me to speak was at...
Baroness Stuart of Edgbaston | 515 c554-5 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful for this debate in Back-Bench time, and I shall be brief. To follow on from the commen...
Oliver Colvile | 515 c549-50 (Link to this contribution) Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker, for giving me the chance to speak in this very important debate. I ...
Geoffrey Robinson | 515 c570 (Link to this contribution) On a point of order, Madam Deputy Speaker. May I seek through you to put it on the record that altho...
Speaker | 515 c570 (Link to this contribution) That is not really a point of order, but the hon. Gentleman has put it on the record. I hope this wi...
James Gray | 515 c494 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend is right to describe this a an important issue, and of course it is right that the Ho...
Lord Campbell of Pittenweem | 515 c516 (Link to this contribution) Is not the outcome of the defence review another element that will influence people's perception of ...
John Baron | 515 c537 (Link to this contribution) I cautioned against our initial deployment in Afghanistan and I have been critical of policy since, ...
Damian Collins | 515 c544-7 (Link to this contribution) We have had a very interesting debate. Members of all parties have spoken with a great deal of convi...
Notes
Daily Part printing error - correction to division list on 13/09/2010 at 515 c720.
Subjects
Armed forces Deployment Peacekeeping operations Terrorism Afghanistan ISAF
Link
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