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Committee of the Whole House (HL) and Debate on bill on Monday, 6 December 2010, in the House of Lords.

Parliamentary Voting System and Constituencies Bill

Parliamentary Voting System and Constituencies Bill. Lords committee stage debate (second day). Clause 1 amendments debated.

Secondary information

Type
Parliamentary proceeding
Reference
723 c11-84, 97-114 
Session
2010-12
Legislative stage
Committee stage
Chamber / Committee
House of Lords chamber
Related items
Proceeding contributions
Lord Rennard | 723 c60-1, (corrigendum) 184 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I wish to oppose the inclusion of Amendment 16 in the Bill and to do so as a strong suppor...
Lord Rennard | 723 c62, (corrigendum) 184 (Link to this contribution) There are many places in this country with very safe seats, where issues of electoral reform are rar...
Show all contributions (245)
Lord Rennard | 723 c107 (Link to this contribution) Perhaps while the noble Lord, Lord Adonis, is present, he might confirm that the Labour Party presse...
Lord Falconer of Thoroton | 723 c107 (Link to this contribution) I am rather confused by this. This is another volte-face. My understanding is that the Liberal Democ...
Lord Falconer of Thoroton | 723 c108 (Link to this contribution) The head-turning going on is easily identified. The public, however, are interested in the merits of...
Lord Strathclyde | 723 c108 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, the amendment moved by the noble Lord, Lord Rooker, would have the referendum pose not one...
Lord Falconer of Thoroton | 723 c107 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to my noble friend Lord Adonis. The noble Lord, Lord Rennard, was not in a position to...
Lord Campbell-Savours | 723 c107-8 (Link to this contribution) Is there not a distinction between how this House would have handled the matter then as against now?...
Lord Falconer of Thoroton | 723 c107 (Link to this contribution) I am talking about the Liberal Democrats.
Lord Adonis | 723 c107 (Link to this contribution) That is absolutely not the case. There was no proposition from the Labour Party. It was always made ...
Lord Strathclyde | 723 c112 (Link to this contribution) Yes, my Lords, I said in my original answer that the question posed was tested with focus groups and...
Lord Strathclyde | 723 c113 (Link to this contribution) I have already said that I would if it was available.
Lord Strathclyde | 723 c112 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, if it is available to be published, I shall certainly see to it that it is done.
Lord Falconer of Thoroton | 723 c112 (Link to this contribution) Is the noble Lord saying that it is focus groups and testing?
Baroness McDonagh | 723 c113 (Link to this contribution) I thank the noble Lord. I intend to withdraw my amendment at this stage. I agree that the referendum...
Lord Strathclyde | 723 c113 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, obviously I cannot commit myself to publishing something if it is unavailable. I said that...
Lord Strathclyde | 723 c114 (Link to this contribution) If noble Lords opposite have had enough, I am happy with that and we can resume the House. But if th...
Lord Campbell-Savours | 723 c114 (Link to this contribution) I am prepared to be helpful. If the House wishes to adjourn now we could regroup the next two amendm...
Lord Strathclyde | 723 c114 (Link to this contribution) I agree, but if the noble Lord, Lord Campbell-Savours, wishes to continue, I shall be happy to carry...
Lord Campbell-Savours | 723 c114 (Link to this contribution) To put it bluntly, I would prefer to go to bed. I do not know whether that suits noble Lords.
Lord Bassam of Brighton | 723 c114 (Link to this contribution) We have had no agreement to go beyond 10 o’clock this evening. It is now 10 o’clock, and it is the t...
Lord Strathclyde | 723 c108 (Link to this contribution) Let me explain the third reason. Noble Lords asked for a reason. I am not giving way to the noble an...
Lord Falconer of Thoroton | 723 c108 (Link to this contribution) The noble Lord was saying that AV+ did not have a single member constituency. Have I misunderstood h...
Lord Strathclyde | 723 c108 (Link to this contribution) In what respect? I said that AV was the one that only had single member constituencies. AV+ has sing...
Lord Touhig | 723 c108 (Link to this contribution) If I understood the noble Lord correctly, he said that AV was put forward because there might have b...
Lord Rooker | 723 c109-10 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to the Leader of the House for that reply. I freely admit that this amendment comes fr...
Lord Strathclyde | 723 c109 (Link to this contribution) The question was this. Why did we propose a referendum on AV? It was not whether we supported AV or ...
Baroness McDonagh | 723 c110 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, my amendment would change the wording in the Bill, which asks: "““At present, the UK uses ...
Baroness McDonagh | 723 c110 (Link to this contribution) 20: Clause 1, page 1, leave out lines 8 to 11 and insert— ““Which electoral system would you prefer ...
Lord Strathclyde | 723 c110-1 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I thank the noble Baroness for moving the amendment. I understand exactly the point she is...
Lord Faulkner of Worcester | 723 c110 (Link to this contribution) I remind the Committee that if this amendment is agreed to I cannot call Amendments 21 to 27 for rea...
Lord Foulkes of Cumnock | 723 c111 (Link to this contribution) Did the Electoral Commission test the question with the first-past-the-post system first and the alt...
Lord Strathclyde | 723 c111 (Link to this contribution) The evidence it had was that first it was alien to referendums that we have had in this country and ...
Baroness McDonagh | 723 c111 (Link to this contribution) Thank you. I think the noble Lord was giving way to me earlier. Can I ask you to go back a little bi...
Lord Strathclyde | 723 c111 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, it simply tested the options system as opposed to a yes/no. It concluded that yes/no was a...
Lord Sewel | 723 c111-2 (Link to this contribution) It is not a matter of asking yes or no; it is a matter of asking what the substance is behind yes or...
Lord Strathclyde | 723 c111 (Link to this contribution) I am sure that the noble Baroness believes that the option system is better, but the commission’s re...
Lord Falconer of Thoroton | 723 c112 (Link to this contribution) I just want some clarity. The way in which the noble Lord put it when asked the question appeared to...
Lord Rennard | 723 c61-2 (Link to this contribution) It was the system that is proposed in this Bill and which was proposed by the then Constitutional Re...
Lord McAvoy | 723 c62 (Link to this contribution) I have listened very carefully to the lucid contributions of my noble friend Lord Lipsey and the nob...
Lord Lipsey | 723 c57-9 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I am tempted by the amendment moved by the noble Lord, Lord Skidelsky, not only because I ...
Lord Skidelsky | 723 c59 (Link to this contribution) Is the noble Lord not descending but ascending into discussing the strengths and weaknesses of diffe...
Lord Lipsey | 723 c59 (Link to this contribution) I see that that is what the amendment would do. However, it adds not one choice, but a plethora of c...
Earl of Clancarty | 723 c59-60 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I support Amendment 16 in the name of the noble Lord, Lord Owen. In the Committee debates ...
Lord Skidelsky | 723 c56 (Link to this contribution) I thank the noble Lord for giving way. I will simply point out that the movers of this amendment are...
Lord Lamont of Lerwick | 723 c56-7 (Link to this contribution) If I digressed, I apologise to the House and stand rebuked. Specifically on the amendment, its Achil...
Lord McFall of Alcluith | 723 c64 (Link to this contribution) Does the noble Lord view the referendum as an event or a process?
Lord Rennard | 723 c64 (Link to this contribution) All electoral processes and all elections are constant processes. However, if we kept things as simp...
Lord Campbell-Savours | 723 c63-4 (Link to this contribution) Why does not the noble Lord be more honest—although I am not accusing him of being dishonest, he cou...
Lord Rennard | 723 c64 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I think that I have been remarkably open and honest all the time I have been in this House...
Lord Howarth of Newport | 723 c64-5 (Link to this contribution) This amendment is a helpful and important one. It certainly needs more work, and I do not think that...
Lord Foulkes of Cumnock | 723 c65 (Link to this contribution) Would my noble friend care to come with me to Scotland, where we have had a change in the electoral ...
Lord Rennard | 723 c63 (Link to this contribution) My own view is that since Gladstone introduced the current system in 1872 in the Secret Ballot Act, ...
Lord Grocott | 723 c63 (Link to this contribution) Will the noble Lord clear up one crucial issue for me, at least, and I hope for the House, about the...
Lord Rennard | 723 c62-3 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I thought that we had a very good compromise in 1997 agreed with the party of the noble Lo...
Lord Campbell-Savours | 723 c62 (Link to this contribution) Compromises have to be settled, and the actual words of the Deputy Prime Minister were: "““I am not ...
Lord Foulkes of Cumnock | 723 c69-70 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful for that clarification and I apologise if I have misrepresented the noble Lord. I hope...
Lord Liddle | 723 c70 (Link to this contribution) Is it the case that under that arrangement what you would have in practice would be more instability...
Lord Foulkes of Cumnock | 723 c69 (Link to this contribution) My noble friend is absolutely right. The noble Lord, Lord Steel of Aikwood, who was one of the archi...
Lord Lamont of Lerwick | 723 c69 (Link to this contribution) I did not say that I completely withdrew what I said. I said that not all the arguments had stood up...
Lord McAvoy | 723 c69 (Link to this contribution) I thank the noble Lord for giving way. Is it not the case that the noble Lord, Lord Steel of Aikwood...
Lord Foulkes of Cumnock | 723 c68-9 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful for that endorsement and argument. My noble friend is a very powerful debater. He has ...
Lord Rooker | 723 c68 (Link to this contribution) I want to make it clear that my noble friend is speaking for Scotland. I am an English person, who, ...
Lord Foulkes of Cumnock | 723 c68 (Link to this contribution) There you are. A confession—good for the soul. It is an awful system, but those of you who live in E...
Lord Foulkes of Cumnock | 723 c67 (Link to this contribution) I was coming to that in half an hour or so. I say to the noble Lord, Lord Rennard, that in every ca...
Lord Roberts of Llandudno | 723 c67 (Link to this contribution) May I ask the noble Lord whether a party getting 23 per cent of the votes deserves 23 per cent of th...
Lord Foulkes of Cumnock | 723 c67 (Link to this contribution) I will come to that later. What the noble Lord supports and has been arguing for—and he argues so p...
Lord Rennard | 723 c67 (Link to this contribution) Will the noble Lord accept that perhaps his support of first past the post might be based on the fac...
Lord Foulkes of Cumnock | 723 c67 (Link to this contribution) I am coming to that in a moment. I am perfectly honest about it and I want the noble Lord to be hone...
Lord Foulkes of Cumnock | 723 c66 (Link to this contribution) My noble friend may have overlooked an amendment that I have tabled suggesting that, if the referend...
Lord Touhig | 723 c66 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I would not go into the Lobby and support the noble Lord if he were to push this to a vote...
Lord Foulkes of Cumnock | 723 c67 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, first, let me say a word about the contribution of the noble Lord, Lord Rennard. It was po...
Lord Touhig | 723 c66-7 (Link to this contribution) The same argument applies to my noble friend’s point. I have one point to leave with the Minister. ...
Lord Howarth of Newport | 723 c65-6 (Link to this contribution) I absolutely recognise the force of what my noble friend says and would be happy to visit Scotland w...
Lord Rooker | 723 c98-9 (Link to this contribution) I regret to say that I have not brought my New Zealand file with me. I could not get away from the C...
Lord Campbell-Savours | 723 c98 (Link to this contribution) Perhaps I may ask my noble friend what the turnout was in the referendum. Is there anything that we ...
Lord Rooker | 723 c99 (Link to this contribution) Amendment 30 takes care of that. I know that I shall be criticised for Amendment 30 but, if you are ...
Lord Sewel | 723 c99 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to my noble friend for giving way. As I understand his argument, he wants to have an i...
Lord Rooker | 723 c99-102 (Link to this contribution) Yes it was. First past the post was mentioned in both referendums even though when people were asked...
Lord Foulkes of Cumnock | 723 c99 (Link to this contribution) Can my noble friend confirm that first past the post was not an option in the second referendum?
Lord Campbell-Savours | 723 c104-5 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I join my noble friend in calling upon the Conservative Benches to take a view because I d...
Lord Foulkes of Cumnock | 723 c102-4 (Link to this contribution) I was sitting here confidently waiting for either the noble Lord, Lord Phillips, or the redoubtable ...
Lord Campbell-Savours | 723 c83 (Link to this contribution) If during the referendum campaign the noble Lord, Lord Strathclyde, is in a television studio and is...
Lord Strathclyde | 723 c82-3 (Link to this contribution) If noble Lord, Lord Owen, had been here—like others I wish him well—I am sure that he would have bee...
Lord Falconer of Thoroton | 723 c82 (Link to this contribution) The noble Lord is right. We did not implement Lord Jenkins’ proposals. We said that if we were going...
Lord Skidelsky | 723 c84 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to all those who have taken part in the debate, particularly to the two Front-Bench sp...
Lord Strathclyde | 723 c84 (Link to this contribution) That is a matter for the noble Lord, Lord Skidelsky, and not for me. I hope that he will not press h...
Lord Sewel | 723 c83 (Link to this contribution) For the sake of completeness and comprehensiveness, would the noble Lord agree, given the weaknesses...
Lord Strathclyde | 723 c83 (Link to this contribution) I would reply that this is the system passed by Parliament: that, in particular, the House of Common...
Lord Rooker | 723 c97-8 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, when I first tabled this little group of amendments, I included one that was along the lin...
Lord Rooker | 723 c97 (Link to this contribution) 18: Clause 1, page 1, line 7, at end insert ““in two parts””
Lord Falconer of Thoroton | 723 c106 (Link to this contribution) That was the step that the then Government proposed in the Constitutional Reform and Governance Bill...
Lord Tyler | 723 c106 (Link to this contribution) Perhaps it would help the House if the noble and learned Lord was able to explain why this was the o...
Lord Falconer of Thoroton | 723 c105-6 (Link to this contribution) That raises a fundamental point which my noble friend Lord Rooker puts very well; you have to be abl...
Lord Campbell-Savours | 723 c105 (Link to this contribution) It is because it was only in the early days prior to coalition that public prejudice on the issue of...
Lord Sewel | 723 c105 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to my noble friend, my near neighbour, for giving way. Could he resolve this dilemma? ...
Lord Rennard | 723 c107 (Link to this contribution) One should consistently want to trust the electorate and give them that decision. I do not think the...
Lord Falconer of Thoroton | 723 c106-7 (Link to this contribution) He has and that is fine. He is not saying necessarily that that is what everyone else has got to do,...
Lord Lamont of Lerwick | 723 c106 (Link to this contribution) Before the noble and learned Lord, Lord Falconer, delves into the bowels of history, is it not the c...
Lord Falconer of Thoroton | 723 c106 (Link to this contribution) I am afraid that I was not a distinguished member of the Government at the time, but let me speculat...
Lord Tyler | 723 c106 (Link to this contribution) This is absurd. Presumably, the noble and learned Lord and his very distinguished colleagues in the ...
Lord Campbell-Savours | 723 c72 (Link to this contribution) If it could be shown that in Scotland turnout did not rise, would that influence the noble Lord?
Lord Phillips of Sudbury | 723 c72 (Link to this contribution) It would influence me to some extent but I would want to know a great deal more about it before I ad...
Lord Campbell-Savours | 723 c72 (Link to this contribution) I hope the noble Lord is able to attend our future debates on this issue.
Baroness McDonagh | 723 c73 (Link to this contribution) Taking Wales as an example, why does the noble Lord believe that more people turn out to vote in fir...
Lord Phillips of Sudbury | 723 c73 (Link to this contribution) Noble Lords are now asking me a series of questions at large that need very detailed consideration t...
Baroness McDonagh | 723 c73 (Link to this contribution) I am sorry but the noble Lord is saying that if we have a different form of voting system, more peop...
Lord Phillips of Sudbury | 723 c73 (Link to this contribution) I certainly will not. I can speak of this country, where I have fought five parliamentary elections....
Lord Foulkes of Cumnock | 723 c70 (Link to this contribution) I remember it well. On that occasion, I said that, if senators were elected for Scotland, for exampl...
Lord Skidelsky | 723 c70 (Link to this contribution) I thank the noble Lord for giving way. As mover of this amendment, I point out that we are not discu...
Lord Campbell-Savours | 723 c70 (Link to this contribution) I remind the noble Lord of a speech he gave to the parliamentary Labour Party about four years ago, ...
Baroness McDonagh | 723 c70 (Link to this contribution) Is it not the case that, when we are debating this referendum, we also need to think ahead of other ...
Lord Foulkes of Cumnock | 723 c70-1 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to my noble friend for rushing to my defence in a distinguished and helpful way—I was ...
Lord Foulkes of Cumnock | 723 c70 (Link to this contribution) I had realised that and I will come to it in just a moment.
Lord Phillips of Sudbury | 723 c72 (Link to this contribution) Yes, of course it would, but the noble Lord cannot demonstrate that until we have tried it. It is no...
Lord Campbell-Savours | 723 c72 (Link to this contribution) If it could be shown that by changing the electoral system in favour of STV or AV, turnout did not r...
Lord Phillips of Sudbury | 723 c71-2 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I will make some practical points in saying why I am in favour of neither this amendment n...
Lord Falconer of Thoroton | 723 c80-1 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, that was a fantastically revealing debate. The noble Lord, Lord Skidelsky, delivered an ex...
Lord Phillips of Sudbury | 723 c81 (Link to this contribution) The noble and learned Lord has made a rather passionate attack on my position. I am not standing on ...
Lord Falconer of Thoroton | 723 c82 (Link to this contribution) I was under the impression—obviously wrongly—that on previous occasions the noble Lord had supported...
Lord Maclennan of Rogart | 723 c82 (Link to this contribution) I am extremely grateful to the noble and learned Lord for his kind references to the agreements arri...
Lord Snape | 723 c78 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to the noble Lord for giving way. Has he taken a look at his own Front Bench lately?
Lord Baker of Dorking | 723 c78 (Link to this contribution) My Front Bench are wonderfully consistent. Their consistency consists of retaining power for as long...
Lord Liddle | 723 c78-9 (Link to this contribution) I was very tempted by the amendment of the noble Lord, Lord Skidelsky, because I should like to see ...
Lord Sewel | 723 c79-80 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, in a previous existence I used to teach something called social science research methods, ...
Lord Snape | 723 c78 (Link to this contribution) My noble friend is indeed being helpful and I am grateful. The fact is that we got it wrong. At leas...
Lord Baker of Dorking | 723 c78 (Link to this contribution) I feel that I almost have to ask permission of the Labour Party to participate in this debate. For t...
Lord Grocott | 723 c74-6 (Link to this contribution) I wholeheartedly agree with that, and I speak as someone who has lost nearly as many elections as th...
Lord Snape | 723 c76-7 (Link to this contribution) It is a pleasure to follow my noble friend Lord Grocott. So far in this debate it has been the other...
Lord Grocott | 723 c74 (Link to this contribution) I will even try and trump my noble friend on my knowledge of Scottish elections. I agree entirely wi...
Lord Lamont of Lerwick | 723 c74 (Link to this contribution) I am very reluctant to join in the almost filibustering tactics of the Opposition and incur the wrat...
Lord Grocott | 723 c74 (Link to this contribution) But why on earth, if the noble Lord’s argument does not apply in Europe—and empirically I can show h...
Lord McFall of Alcluith | 723 c74 (Link to this contribution) Maybe this will help the noble Lord, Lord Phillips. Since devolution took place in Scotland, in 1998...
Lord Grocott | 723 c73-4 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I was going to intervene briefly in any case, but the noble Lord, Lord Phillips, has given...
Lord Phillips of Sudbury | 723 c73 (Link to this contribution) Will noble Lords allow me quickly to conclude my speech? The noble Baroness has intervened twice alr...
Lord Campbell-Savours | 723 c77 (Link to this contribution) Perhaps I may remind my noble friend that the only party that has consistently supported and campaig...
Lord Hamilton of Epsom | 723 c14 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I support the noble Lord, Lord Rooker, on this amendment, not because I am completely rela...
Lord Tyler | 723 c14 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, it would seem from what Members were saying at great length last week in a debate lasting ...
Lord Rooker | 723 c15 (Link to this contribution) I never once referred to combined elections. That is not the issue as far as my amendment is concern...
Lord Tyler | 723 c15 (Link to this contribution) I can answer the noble Lord, as it happens, because I have very good brief. That Bill started its pr...
Lord Elystan-Morgan | 723 c15 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, there is a fallacy in the argument of the noble Lord, Lord Tyler. There are certainly many...
Lord Grocott | 723 c15-6 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, the noble Lord, Lord Tyler, has missed the point of my noble friend’s amendment, which is ...
Lord Reid of Cardowan | 723 c16 (Link to this contribution) My noble friend will have noticed the staunch support for Scottish wisdom given by the noble Lord, L...
Lord Fowler | 723 c17-8 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I very much support what my noble friend Lord Tyler said. I think the noble Lord, Lord Gro...
Lord Rooker | 723 c11-3 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, this is my second offer of a lifeboat to the coalition. Last week, I offered one on the in...
Baroness Hayman | 723 c13 (Link to this contribution) I have to tell the Committee that if Amendment 5 is agreed, I cannot call Amendments 7 to 12 inclusi...
Lord Rooker | 723 c11 (Link to this contribution) 5: Clause 1, page 1, line 6, leave out ““on 5 May”” and insert ““before 31 October””
Lord Howarth of Newport | 723 c24-5 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I fear that a number of important issues are all too liable to become confused in the mind...
Baroness Oppenheim-Barnes | 723 c23 (Link to this contribution) I was not making that point at all. The point I was making was not about how the case for or against...
Baroness Hayter of Kentish Town | 723 c23-4 (Link to this contribution) I apologise if I have misunderstood, but it seemed to me that the word ““important”” was of great si...
Lord McAvoy | 723 c21-3 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I support my noble friend’s amendment. It gives me, and others, another chance to state ye...
Baroness Hayter of Kentish Town | 723 c23 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I would like briefly to follow up the wise words of the noble Baroness, Lady Oppenheim-Bar...
Lord Stoddart of Swindon | 723 c20-1 (Link to this contribution) I agree with the noble Baroness and wish to emphasise the fact that changing the system of election ...
Baroness Oppenheim-Barnes | 723 c20 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, first, I am a little seduced by the amendment, although I think it is a little sneaky and ...
Lord Lipsey | 723 c18-20 (Link to this contribution) Like many other noble Lords, I did not find it easy to get in here from where I live, in Wales, this...
Lord Fowler | 723 c18 (Link to this contribution) The noble Lord has had to listen to the debate for only the short time in which we have been speakin...
Lord Brooke of Alverthorpe | 723 c18 (Link to this contribution) The amendment is not about voting on the same day; it is about a contingency plan in the event of Pa...
Lord Lamont of Lerwick | 723 c55-6 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, as always, the noble Lord, Lord Skidelsky, has made an attractive speech which was full of...
Lord Skidelsky | 723 c53-4 (Link to this contribution) I think that those who tabled the amendment did not want to overcomplicate the choices being put to ...
Lord Campbell-Savours | 723 c53 (Link to this contribution) The Plant commission did not turn down AV. It said that it was a perfectly acceptable system, but th...
Lord Campbell-Savours | 723 c54-5 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I shall speak to Amendments 16A and 17, which are in this group. I wish to follow up on so...
Lord Campbell-Savours | 723 c54 (Link to this contribution) 16A: Clause 1, line 8, leave out ““the”” and insert ““an””
Lord Skidelsky | 723 c51-2 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, it will not have escaped the notice of the House that I am not the noble Lord, Lord Owen. ...
Lord Skidelsky | 723 c51 (Link to this contribution) 16: Clause 1, page 1, line 7, leave out subsections (3) and (4) and insert— ““(3) The question that ...
Lord Skidelsky | 723 c52-3 (Link to this contribution) I believe everything I read that Anthony Seldon writes. There was also an offer to make it a vote o...
Lord Foulkes of Cumnock | 723 c52 (Link to this contribution) I wonder if the noble Lord could say whether he believes everything he reads in that book.
Countess of Mar | 723 c51 (Link to this contribution) Before I call Amendment 16, I have to say that, if Amendment 16 is agreed to, I cannot call Amendmen...
Lord Falconer of Thoroton | 723 c47-8 (Link to this contribution) This debate followed the pattern of the last debate: the noble Lord, Lord Strathclyde, was incredibl...
Lord Strathclyde | 723 c47 (Link to this contribution) I certainly do not think that they are the enemy either. The point I was making was that the correct...
Lord Rooker | 723 c47 (Link to this contribution) Perhaps I can add to that. I was not going to intervene in this debate but I was struck by the Leade...
Lord Morris of Aberavon | 723 c47 (Link to this contribution) I add my voice to concerns about the lack of consultation of the Welsh Assembly and the Scottish Par...
Lord Snape | 723 c46 (Link to this contribution) I hope I have shown no arrogance, nor have I patronised them. They are not my former constituents, i...
Lord Strathclyde | 723 c46 (Link to this contribution) I cannot possibly answer the questions of the noble Lord, Lord Soley. If I am able to find out, I wi...
Lord Snape | 723 c46 (Link to this contribution) The noble Lord brusquely spurned my offer of a meeting in Stockport this weekend, but perhaps I can ...
Lord Strathclyde | 723 c45 (Link to this contribution) I do not believe in apologising when I am not fully aware of the facts.
Lord Howarth of Newport | 723 c45 (Link to this contribution) Can I tempt the Leader of the House to apologise on behalf of the Government to Members of the Scott...
Lord Strathclyde | 723 c45 (Link to this contribution) It is as much a mystery to me as it is to my noble friend why the Labour Party and the noble and lea...
Lord Phillips of Sudbury | 723 c45 (Link to this contribution) Will my noble friend comment on the fact that there are many other legislatures where elections, ref...
Lord Falconer of Thoroton | 723 c45 (Link to this contribution) Let me help. What happens is that people concentrate on the election of individuals and they do not ...
Lord Strathclyde | 723 c46 (Link to this contribution) My point was that there was an aspect of confidentiality before the decision was announced; of cours...
Lord Strathclyde | 723 c45 (Link to this contribution) I understand the views in Scotland and in Wales, and possibly in Northern Ireland as well. However, ...
Lord Strathclyde | 723 c45 (Link to this contribution) I accept the noble Lord’s point; he has made it before. Perhaps if we were doing it differently, it ...
Lord Elystan-Morgan | 723 c45 (Link to this contribution) Following that question from the noble Lord, Lord Rowlands, perhaps I can ask who decided that there...
Lord Falconer of Thoroton | 723 c41-3 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, Amendment 15, which stands in my name and that of my noble friend Lord Bach, concerns the ...
Lord Falconer of Thoroton | 723 c41 (Link to this contribution) 15: Clause 1, page 1, line 6, at end insert— ““( ) The date of the referendum shall not coincide wit...
Lord Geddes | 723 c38-41 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, before putting Amendment 5, I must advise the Committee that if it is agreed to, or indeed...
Lord Rowlands | 723 c44 (Link to this contribution) Does the noble Lord think that he knows better than all the Members of the National Assembly and the...
Lord Strathclyde | 723 c44 (Link to this contribution) I cannot quote a combined national referendum and national election but that does not mean that you ...
Lord Falconer of Thoroton | 723 c44 (Link to this contribution) Before the noble Lord quotes from the Gould report, could he identify for the House the occasions on...
Lord Strathclyde | 723 c43-4 (Link to this contribution) I am very grateful to the noble and learned Lord for introducing his amendment. As he laid out, it s...
Lord Strathclyde | 723 c37 (Link to this contribution) It is a long Bill, and an awful lot of noble Lords on the other side want to ask us questions. My no...
Lord Rooker | 723 c37 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, without being personal in any way, can I say that I am really looking forward to the noble...
Lord Strathclyde | 723 c35 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, its opinion is rock solid. It has every confidence.
Baroness McDonagh | 723 c36 (Link to this contribution) That was not my question. My question was whether this May there will be any local referendums on wh...
Lord Strathclyde | 723 c36 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I am glad for that clarification. I did not fully understand the noble Baroness’s question...
Lord Harris of Haringey | 723 c36-7 (Link to this contribution) The noble Lord very kindly gave us a list of areas where there will be elections, but perhaps he cou...
Lord Falconer of Thoroton | 723 c35 (Link to this contribution) The Electoral Commission says: "““It is possible to successfully deliver these different polls on 5 ...
Lord Strathclyde | 723 c35-6 (Link to this contribution) The noble Lord, Lord Grenfell, asked whether the Electoral Commission was going to change its mind. ...
Baroness McDonagh | 723 c36 (Link to this contribution) The noble Lord did not answer my questions about whether there would be any mayoral or local referen...
Lord Strathclyde | 723 c36 (Link to this contribution) Yes, my Lords, there will be local referendums on this day. There are a number of elections. It migh...
Lord Strathclyde | 723 c37 (Link to this contribution) There will be no elections in the areas that I did not mention. The noble Lord may feel that Londone...
Lord Strathclyde | 723 c35 (Link to this contribution) Whether it is ““on balance”” or ““minimal”” we think it is perfectly possible to have the referendum...
Lord Soley | 723 c35 (Link to this contribution) I am going to invite the noble Lord to answer my question on this—he took a great deal of interest i...
Lord Strathclyde | 723 c35 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, if there is a risk, it is minimal. We have had the evidence from the Electoral Commission,...
Lord Falconer of Thoroton | 723 c35 (Link to this contribution) Its words were ““on balance””. Minimal was the noble Lord’s word.
Lord Strathclyde | 723 c34 (Link to this contribution) I am sure that it would have been all of those things, but none is a reason not to have the referend...
Lord Falconer of Thoroton | 723 c35 (Link to this contribution) I apologise for interrupting, but the noble Lord appears to be moving on. The heart of the argument ...
Lord Strathclyde | 723 c33-4 (Link to this contribution) Yes, there is a fourth group which supports a reform of the electoral system but not this reform. Bu...
Lord Elystan-Morgan | 723 c34 (Link to this contribution) Granted that the Government had a total conviction that it should be 5 May and nothing else, would i...
Lord Grenfell | 723 c35 (Link to this contribution) I thank the noble Lord for giving way. Has there been a change of heart in the Electoral Commission ...
Lord Strathclyde | 723 c35 (Link to this contribution) The noble Lord, Lord Soley, did indeed ask me a question. He asked—I wrote it down—““What happens if...
Lord Campbell-Savours | 723 c28 (Link to this contribution) At this stage, I shall resume my seat and await later opportunities to discuss these matters.
Baroness McDonagh | 723 c28-9 (Link to this contribution) I thank noble Lords who have come back to this issue of confusion. Can we knock on the head, once an...
Lord Tyler | 723 c29 (Link to this contribution) Would the noble Baroness like to turn to Amendment 12, which is in this group? As I understand it, s...
Baroness McDonagh | 723 c29 (Link to this contribution) I thank the noble Lord. He is right, and I never have a problem saying when I am in the wrong. When ...
Lord Snape | 723 c29-31 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I rise briefly to support my noble friend Lord Rooker in his amendment and to speak equall...
Baroness Butler-Sloss | 723 c31 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, may I ask the Leader of the House a practical question? Having sat through the debate on A...
Lord McFall of Alcluith | 723 c31-2 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I support the proposition of my noble friend Lord Rooker. When I came into this House a co...
Lord Strathclyde | 723 c33 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, we have had another series of interesting debates, largely on the same issue that we discu...
Lord Campbell-Savours | 723 c33 (Link to this contribution) There is another group as well. There is a group of us who passionately support a reform of the elec...
Lord Soley | 723 c25-6 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I rise with one intention only: to ask a specific question of the noble Lord, Lord Strathc...
Lord Campbell-Savours | 723 c26-7 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I want to follow that specific question. I am pleased that my noble friend was able to int...
Lord Howarth of Newport | 723 c28 (Link to this contribution) I am very grateful to my noble friend, who has certainly done his homework and research very careful...
Lord Campbell-Savours | 723 c28 (Link to this contribution) I have identified those areas, but I think that the more relevant results are those in Queensland in...
Lord Rennard | 723 c27 (Link to this contribution) The noble Lord seems to suggest again, as have a number of noble Lords, that there simply has not be...
Lord Campbell-Savours | 723 c27 (Link to this contribution) That is the intervention of someone who has not done all his homework. It is true that AV was consid...
Lord Grenfell | 723 c28 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, may I have the temerity to point out to the noble Lord, Lord Rennard, who correctly told u...
Lord Campbell-Savours | 723 c28 (Link to this contribution) As I say, I have spent the last weekend talking to people throughout Scotland about how it operates ...
Lord Strathclyde | 723 c112 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, we have decided to support the findings of the Electoral Commission.
Lord Foulkes of Cumnock | 723 c102 (Link to this contribution) I was waiting for the noble Lord, Lord Phillips, to come in.
Lord Phillips of Sudbury | 723 c74 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful for the noble Lord for giving way. We are talking about Westminster elections—not a pr...
Lord Rooker | 723 c37-8 (Link to this contribution) I really appreciate the fact that the Leader of the House is taking a detailed role in the passage o...
Lord Falconer of Thoroton | 723 c32-3 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, this is the sort of opportunity that the Government should take. My noble friend Lord Rook...
Lord Falconer of Thoroton | 723 c113 (Link to this contribution) The noble Lord says, ““If it is available””, but there must be a record of it.
Lord Foulkes of Cumnock | 723 c112 (Link to this contribution) I find the argument given by my noble friend Lady McDonagh much more convincing. With respect, she h...
Lord Grocott | 723 c16-7 (Link to this contribution) I very much agree with my noble friend. We have so many different electoral systems—five already wit...
Baroness Hayter of Kentish Town | 723 c46-7 (Link to this contribution) How much will the mailing to every elector cost, compared with the £15 million extra for a separate ...
Lord Soley | 723 c46 (Link to this contribution) Will the Leader of the House make clear whether this confidentiality relates to shared Cabinet respo...
Subjects
Alternative vote Ballots Administration Elections Local government Referendums Proportional representation Reform
Legislation
Parliamentary Voting System and Constituencies Bill 2010-12
Link
View this Parliamentary proceeding on www.publications.parliament.uk