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Debate on Wednesday, 9 February 2011, in the House of Commons, led by Lord Pickles.

Local Government Finance

Debate on motion to approve the Local Government Finance Report 2011-12 (HC 748). Agreed to on division (292 to 197). Debated with motion to approve Limitation of Council Tax and Precepts (Alternative Notional Amounts) Report (England) 2011-12 (HC 774). Agreed to on question.

Secondary information

Type
Parliamentary proceeding
Reference
523 c383-432 
Session
2010-12
Department
Department for Communities and Local Government
Chamber / Committee
House of Commons chamber
Related items
Proceeding contributions
Lord Austin of Dudley | 523 c384 (Link to this contribution) Will the Secretary of State give way?
Lord Pickles | 523 c384 (Link to this contribution) I will give way in a few moments. The phasing of the settlement will be challenging. Councils can c...
Show all contributions (158)
Lord Pickles | 523 c384 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman is quite right to correct me; I beg the right hon. Gentleman's pardon. He is inde...
Lord Austin of Dudley | 523 c384 (Link to this contribution) He is right honourable, and he knows a lot more about it than you.
Lord Pickles | 523 c384 (Link to this contribution) Last time we discussed this, the hon. Gentleman made some interesting suggestions about the level of...
Lord Blunkett | 523 c383 (Link to this contribution) The Secretary of State mentions the business rate. Could he tell the House how much, in billions, th...
Tony Lloyd | 523 c383 (Link to this contribution) Even if the Secretary of State sets the context in terms of a cuts agenda for local government, why ...
Lord Pickles | 523 c383 (Link to this contribution) If the hon. Gentleman will forgive me, I will come to that point in a moment. If I do not satisfy hi...
Lord Pickles | 523 c383 (Link to this contribution) I beg to move,"That the Local Government Finance Report (England) 2011-12 (House of Commons Paper No...
Lord Pickles | 523 c383 (Link to this contribution) Over recent weeks, my coalition colleagues and I have had many conversations with local government. ...
Speaker | 523 c383 (Link to this contribution) With this we shall discuss the following motion:"That the Limitation of Council Tax and Precepts (Al...
Lord Pickles | 523 c387 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Lady and her councils were given quite a lot of time. The former Chancellor, the right hon....
Joan Walley | 523 c386-7 (Link to this contribution) My constituents do not want the House to make politics of what is happening. Everybody understands t...
Lord Pickles | 523 c386 (Link to this contribution) We have done three significant things. First, we moved the relative needs threshold to 83% from 73%,...
Mark Field | 523 c386 (Link to this contribution) Will my right hon. Friend go into some detail for the benefit of the House about his commitment to t...
Caroline Flint | 523 c387 (Link to this contribution) Does the Secretary of State agree with the sentiments of his colleague, the Under-Secretary of State...
Lord Pickles | 523 c387 (Link to this contribution) I will give way in a few moments, but I shall make a little progress, if the Chairman of the Communi...
Lord Pickles | 523 c386 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend is of course perfectly right. The Opposition seem to think that it is magic money, bu...
Charlie Elphicke | 523 c386 (Link to this contribution) Does the Secretary of State agree that we are hearing a confused argument from the Opposition, but t...
Lord Pickles | 523 c386 (Link to this contribution) In a moment. The hon. Member for Dudley North has to understand that these are local decisions. We ...
Lord Pickles | 523 c385 (Link to this contribution) I am most grateful to the right hon. Lady. What she needs to understand is that two figures have bee...
Lord Austin of Dudley | 523 c385 (Link to this contribution) I am very grateful to the Secretary of State. Nobody disputes that savings have to be made by local ...
Lord Pickles | 523 c385 (Link to this contribution) How can I turn down the hon. Gentleman? He has been up and down like Tigger.
Joan Walley | 523 c386 (Link to this contribution) Will the Secretary of State give way?
Lord Pickles | 523 c385-6 (Link to this contribution) I feel a certain degree of camaraderie and fraternal friendship with the hon. Gentleman, because unl...
Joan Walley | 523 c386 (Link to this contribution) Will the Secretary of State give way?
Lord Pickles | 523 c386 (Link to this contribution) In a moment—I need to respond to the hon. Member for Dudley North (Ian Austin) first. Let us consid...
Hazel Blears | 523 c385 (Link to this contribution) The Secretary of State knows that I have raised the issue of business rates in this House on a numbe...
Lord Pickles | 523 c384-5 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman must pay more attention. When I say that I will give way in a few moments, that i...
Paul Goggins | 523 c388 (Link to this contribution) The Secretary of State has praised some local authorities for planning ahead for cuts, but he did no...
Lord Pickles | 523 c389 (Link to this contribution) There does seem to be a big difference between how Sheffield and other large authorities are going a...
Henry Smith | 523 c389 (Link to this contribution) My constituency has some of the most deprived areas anywhere in the region, but for the last eight y...
Lord Pickles | 523 c389 (Link to this contribution) It appears that there are two kinds of authority. There are Conservative and Liberal Democrat author...
Lord Pickles | 523 c388 (Link to this contribution) My right hon. Friend is absolutely correct. I certainly hope that this year's settlement and next ye...
Lord Pickles | 523 c390 (Link to this contribution) I shall give way in a moment, once I have made this point. The right hon. Gentleman is a senior Memb...
Mark Pawsey | 523 c389 (Link to this contribution) My right hon. Friend spoke about the need for councils to control executive salaries. Does he have s...
Lord Pickles | 523 c389-90 (Link to this contribution) Hammersmith and Fulham is obviously the apple of my eye in London, but the decision taken by my hon....
Lord Blunkett | 523 c390 (Link to this contribution) Will the Secretary of State give way?
Lord Pickles | 523 c388 (Link to this contribution) I would give way to my right hon. Friend, but I feel like I have been persecuting the Chairman of th...
Lord Pickles | 523 c388 (Link to this contribution) Of course the settlement is very disappointing, but the Government would not do what we are doing ha...
Lord Pickles | 523 c388 (Link to this contribution) I will give way to my right hon. Friend, but then in a few moments I will of course do so for my hon...
Lord Beith | 523 c388 (Link to this contribution) Does the Secretary of State accept that it was almost impossible to introduce the required degree of...
Clive Betts | 523 c388 (Link to this contribution) The Secretary of State said that this is a matter for local decision, and that there is no need for ...
Lord Pickles | 523 c388 (Link to this contribution) Yes, I can—Reading and Ribble Valley have done so. We have a list, but the hon. Gentleman is ascribi...
Lord Blunkett | 523 c391 (Link to this contribution) This issue of transparency is absolutely crucial. Is it not a fact that the 8.9% and the distributio...
Hazel Blears | 523 c390 (Link to this contribution) Let me take the Secretary of State back to his assertion that no council will lose more than 8.9% of...
Chris Heaton-Harris | 523 c393 (Link to this contribution) The right hon. Lady suggests that cuts in executive pay constitute a mere pinprick in the savings re...
Graham Stringer | 523 c393 (Link to this contribution) My right hon. Friend mentioned the letter sent by the Under-Secretary of State for Communities and L...
Caroline Flint | 523 c393 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend has made a very good point about the unfairness of the cuts. The Government are passp...
Charlie Elphicke | 523 c393 (Link to this contribution) Does the right hon. Lady agree that it is not simply a question of excessive pay, but of excessive p...
Caroline Flint | 523 c393 (Link to this contribution) We can all trade examples, so let me provide the hon. Gentleman with one from Hammersmith and Fulham...
Lord Pickles | 523 c391 (Link to this contribution) The right hon. Gentleman will forgive me for correcting him: it is not 8.9%; it is 8.8%. We have put...
Caroline Flint | 523 c391-3 (Link to this contribution) We have heard it all this afternoon. We have heard every possible excuse and cop-out, but we have no...
Chris Heaton-Harris | 523 c394 (Link to this contribution) Even if it is over three years, it still amounts to 7% or 8% of the total savings required. Does the...
Speaker | 523 c394 (Link to this contribution) Order. The hon. Gentleman must resume his seat.
Speaker | 523 c394 (Link to this contribution) Order. The hon. Gentleman must resume his seat.
Caroline Flint | 523 c395 (Link to this contribution) I am not sure that there is anything to celebrate. Whether we are talking about the Supporting Peopl...
Lord Pickles | 523 c395 (Link to this contribution) I am sure that the right hon. Lady would not want to put an incorrect statement on the record. Will ...
Speaker | 523 c394 (Link to this contribution) I know that the hon. Gentleman heard me earlier; he clearly saw me. Interventions must be short.
Caroline Flint | 523 c394 (Link to this contribution) I do not know how to follow the hon. Gentleman's intervention, because it is a good example of the g...
Clive Betts | 523 c403 (Link to this contribution) Manchester city council has to make its own local decisions, and I am not here to support or defend ...
Louise Mensch | 523 c403 (Link to this contribution) Does the hon. Gentleman think that it is right that only months before announcing these job loses, M...
Clive Betts | 523 c402 (Link to this contribution) —over which authorities do not have discretion. The figures include the housing revenue account and ...
Charlie Elphicke | 523 c402 (Link to this contribution) Do not many local authorities have substantial reserves? The reason for having reserves is to provid...
Clive Betts | 523 c402 (Link to this contribution) I cannot identify the reserves of each authority, but the total figures provided by the Government i...
Brandon Lewis | 523 c402 (Link to this contribution) Will the hon. Gentleman give way?
Clive Betts | 523 c402-3 (Link to this contribution) I have already given way to the hon. Gentleman and think that that is reasonably fair. The spread of...
Paul Goggins | 523 c402 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend might like to comment on the claim made by the hon. Member for Dover (Charlie Elphick...
Clive Betts | 523 c402 (Link to this contribution) The Secretary of State has had an exchange of letters with the Conservative chair of the Local Gover...
Clive Betts | 523 c401 (Link to this contribution) All I can say is that the hon. Gentleman's authority must have had a much more favourable settlement...
Clive Betts | 523 c401 (Link to this contribution) I am sorry, but I must make progress. Other Members want to speak in the debate. My next point is o...
Simon Kirby | 523 c401 (Link to this contribution) Does the hon. Gentleman think it is right that this country is paying £120 million per day to servic...
Clive Betts | 523 c401-2 (Link to this contribution) That is not the intervention that I was expecting. I thought that as those on the Front Bench could ...
Brandon Lewis | 523 c401 (Link to this contribution) Does the hon. Gentleman acknowledge that local authorities across the country, such as my own in Gre...
Clive Betts | 523 c401 (Link to this contribution) There were ear-marked allocations, including some transferred money from NHS funding, but even so lo...
Henry Smith | 523 c400 (Link to this contribution) Will the hon. Gentleman acknowledge the billions of pounds added to social care budgets in the compr...
Clive Betts | 523 c400 (Link to this contribution) The Secretary of State's words are very apposite—it is not a lot of money, but there are an awful lo...
Clive Betts | 523 c400 (Link to this contribution) Local authorities are going to get a further £10 million on top of the settlement they were previous...
Lord Pickles | 523 c400 (Link to this contribution) The figure is £10 million extra to district authorities. That is why the cut for authorities is no l...
Clive Betts | 523 c400 (Link to this contribution) The Secretary of State has obviously listened to many representations in the past few weeks, but the...
Lord Pickles | 523 c400 (Link to this contribution) No, it is entirely from the Department's budget.
Andrew Turner | 523 c399-400 (Link to this contribution) I shall keep my comments relatively brief, Madam Deputy Speaker. I wish to start by thanking the Und...
Caroline Flint | 523 c396-8 (Link to this contribution) Well, so far as Sheffield is concerned, part of the problem is that the Liberal Democrats are runnin...
Gordon Birtwistle | 523 c396 (Link to this contribution) Why is Liberal Democrat-controlled Sheffield city council making only 250 people redundant, yet the ...
Speaker | 523 c398 (Link to this contribution) I have to announce the results of the Divisions deferred from previous days. In the Division on the ...
Andy Slaughter | 523 c395 (Link to this contribution) I will talk about the myths of Hammersmith and Fulham later if I have the opportunity, but for now m...
Caroline Flint | 523 c395 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend always enlightens us as to the true nature of what is happening in Hammersmith and Fu...
Clive Betts | 523 c395 (Link to this contribution) In the last Parliament the Communities and Local Government Committee conducted a report on Supporti...
Caroline Flint | 523 c395-6 (Link to this contribution) I always bow to the experience and knowledge of my hon. Friend. This will all come to light in the w...
Caroline Flint | 523 c395 (Link to this contribution) Unlike the Secretary of State's hon. Friends, we put money into the Supporting People grant to suppo...
Andy Slaughter | 523 c421 (Link to this contribution) The Secretary of State may shake his head, but he is very welcome to intervene. He has called the co...
Andy Slaughter | 523 c418-20 (Link to this contribution) Hammersmith and Fulham council is closing nine of its 15 children centres this year, and by doing so...
Tessa Munt | 523 c417-8 (Link to this contribution) I disagree, because the situation here is that the county council has £29 million in reserves, exclu...
Rory Stewart | 523 c422 (Link to this contribution) Will the hon. Gentleman give way?
Tony Lloyd | 523 c422 (Link to this contribution) I have checked and there is a communications officer, whom, the House might be interested to know, w...
Grant Shapps | 523 c422 (Link to this contribution) Is the hon. Gentleman saying that an advert for a new media expert for £38,000 was not placed by the...
Tony Lloyd | 523 c421-2 (Link to this contribution) I have spent almost my whole political life not wanting to personalise politics, but I must say to t...
Lord Pickles | 523 c422 (Link to this contribution) Some of the problems that the hon. Gentleman is talking about relate to the working neighbourhoods f...
Tony Lloyd | 523 c422 (Link to this contribution) I will give way to the Secretary of State. I hope the hon. Gentleman will forgive me.
Charlie Elphicke | 523 c411-2 (Link to this contribution) I meant no discourtesy, Mr Speaker. Moving quickly to my own history, when I was elected in 1994 we...
Charlie Elphicke | 523 c412 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend makes a fair point. Just as when all parties in Lambeth worked together positively in...
Andrew Bridgen | 523 c412 (Link to this contribution) Does my hon. Friend agree that the fact that my local council in North West Leicestershire is facing...
Chris Leslie | 523 c413 (Link to this contribution) Does my right hon. Friend agree that some of these grant choices are not simply about fairness? For ...
Hazel Blears | 523 c412-3 (Link to this contribution) I shall keep my remarks brief, because I know that many Members want the debate to wind up. I shall ...
Lord Pickles | 523 c415 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to the right hon. Lady who, as always, is giving a thoughtful speech. I can assure her...
Hazel Blears | 523 c413-5 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend is absolutely right; we share the same concerns. The Greater Manchester fire and resc...
Tessa Munt | 523 c416-7 (Link to this contribution) I do not wish to rehearse arguments that have been presented by Members on both sides of the House. ...
Hazel Blears | 523 c415-6 (Link to this contribution) I think that if the Secretary of State came to Salford—as the Minister for Housing and Local Governm...
Chris Leslie | 523 c417 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Lady is making an important point about how politicians who are obsessed with debt reductio...
Brandon Lewis | 523 c406-7 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend is talking about London, but does he agree that what he describes is mirrored outside...
Bob Blackman | 523 c406 (Link to this contribution) Indeed; my hon. Friend makes a fair point. We have heard the starting point of the apology and a lit...
Speaker | 523 c411 (Link to this contribution) Order. May I say very gently to the hon. Gentleman that although I am sure his advertisement of my c...
Steve Rotheram | 523 c409-10 (Link to this contribution) Dear me. It's the same old mantra, isn't it? We have had the debate on the deficit and the argument ...
Andrew Bridgen | 523 c409 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman has told the House of his scepticism in respect of the future of the big society....
Steve Rotheram | 523 c408-9 (Link to this contribution) When I spoke on local government funding in December, Government Members accused me of pre-empting t...
Bob Blackman | 523 c407-8 (Link to this contribution) I thank the hon. Lady for that intervention. It leads me on to my menu of what councils should do. H...
Heidi Alexander | 523 c407 (Link to this contribution) Like the hon. Gentleman, I represent a London constituency. My local authority faces cuts of £87 mil...
Bob Blackman | 523 c407 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend makes a good point. The reality is that the councils that planned ahead, knowing that...
Lord Pickles | 523 c403 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman occupies a senior position and so should know that all business rates have to be ...
Bob Blackman | 523 c405 (Link to this contribution) I thank my hon. Friend for that intervention, which refers to another thing that took place under th...
Charlie Elphicke | 523 c405 (Link to this contribution) Does my hon. Friend agree that, extraordinarily, all that monitoring and inspection never seemed to ...
Bob Blackman | 523 c405 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend anticipates a matter that I was going to come to later. The outdated Barnett formula,...
Henry Smith | 523 c405 (Link to this contribution) Does my hon. Friend think that as well as certainty in terms of the amounts received by local author...
Clive Betts | 523 c403 (Link to this contribution) I understand that revenues from business rates go up and down, so when they go up more should be dis...
Bob Blackman | 523 c404 (Link to this contribution) We meet today to review the local government settlement, and no doubt councils throughout the countr...
Clive Betts | 523 c403-4 (Link to this contribution) I will of course send the letter to the Secretary of State, and I look forward to his response. On ...
Caroline Flint | 523 c428 (Link to this contribution) I am aware of the time and I appreciate the right hon. Gentleman giving way. The person who stated t...
Caroline Flint | 523 c427 (Link to this contribution) There is huge concern up and down the country that there will be a future Tory policy to localise bu...
Grant Shapps | 523 c427 (Link to this contribution) I am pleased to be able to provide the right hon. Lady with the reassurance that she needs. A redist...
Clive Betts | 523 c425 (Link to this contribution) The right hon. Gentleman refers to past debates. Can he point to any occasion over the years when th...
Grant Shapps | 523 c425-7 (Link to this contribution) The Chairman of the Communities and Local Government Committee is absolutely right: my colleagues an...
Tony Lloyd | 523 c424 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend makes an important point, because all of this is about political choice, and we have ...
Grant Shapps | 523 c424-5 (Link to this contribution) It must have been an incredible experience to stand at this Dispatch Box for the local government fi...
Caroline Flint | 523 c428 (Link to this contribution) Will the right hon. Gentleman give way?
Grant Shapps | 523 c428 (Link to this contribution) I was going to conclude, but I will give way on this point.
Steve Rotheram | 523 c428 (Link to this contribution) If I can prove that it is 30%, will the Minister give us back the other 29% so that we suffer only a...
Grant Shapps | 523 c428 (Link to this contribution) As the hon. Gentleman knows, the grant formula—[Interruption.] Members would do well to listen to th...
Tony Lloyd | 523 c423 (Link to this contribution) Let me try to bring the hon. Gentleman forward a little in his thinking. Manchester would love to ha...
Charlie Elphicke | 523 c423 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman speaks of the £64 million earmarked for redundancies. What we did in Lambeth, wha...
Tony Lloyd | 523 c424 (Link to this contribution) The only thing I disagree with is that my right hon. Friend's words are too mild, because what the S...
Paul Goggins | 523 c423 (Link to this contribution) Does my hon. Friend agree that the comments, remarks and challenges coming from Government Members r...
Tony Lloyd | 523 c422-3 (Link to this contribution) I invite the Secretary of State to come to my constituency any day of his choosing. We will walk aro...
Tony Lloyd | 523 c423 (Link to this contribution) I think the hon. Gentleman is either a little hard of hearing or not too fast at understanding. My r...
Charlie Elphicke | 523 c423 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman talks of political choices. Yes, we can talk about statues, Twitter tsars, creati...
Tony Lloyd | 523 c423 (Link to this contribution) The £64 million that will now be allocated will be for the redundancies that the Government are forc...
Grant Shapps | 523 c423 (Link to this contribution) Does the hon. Gentleman recognise that there is £108 million of non-schools money held by his local ...
Lord Pickles | 523 c390-1 (Link to this contribution) I can bring better news to the right hon. Lady, because the figure will not be 8.9%, but 8.8%, which...
James Morris | 523 c394 (Link to this contribution) Is not one of the remarkable aspects of the settlement the fact that, in these difficult times, the ...
James Morris | 523 c405 (Link to this contribution) As the right hon. Member for Don Valley (Caroline Flint) said, Labour was committed to reducing the ...
Charlie Elphicke | 523 c410-1 (Link to this contribution) I shall try to keep my remarks brief. The Secretary of State has set out our position in relation t...
Grant Shapps | 523 c428 (Link to this contribution) Here is a simple fact for the right hon. Lady: the reduction in spending power over the next two yea...
Andrew Gwynne | 523 c424 (Link to this contribution) Earlier, the Secretary of State mentioned extra resources for the concessionary fares for shire dist...
Subjects
Disadvantaged Council tax Finance Local government Local government finance Business rates Local government services Cuts
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