Debate on bill on Tuesday, 16 July 2013, in the House of Commons.

Marriage (Same Sex Couples) Bill

Lords amendments 1 to 55 considered and agreed to.

Secondary information

Type: Parliamentary proceeding
Reference: 566 cc1026-1059
Session: 2013-14
Department: Department for Culture, Media and Sport
Legislative stage: Lords amendments
Chamber / Committee: House of Commons chamber
Related items: Marriage (Same Sex Couples) Bill 2012-13 to 2013-14. Lords amendments.
Monday, 15 July 2013
Bills
House of Commons
Proceeding contributions: John Bercow | 566 c1026 (Link to this contribution)
I draw the House’s attention to the fact that financial privilege is involved in Lords amendments...; Maria Miller | 566 c1026 (Link to this contribution)
I beg to move, That this House agrees with Lords amendment 1.; John Bercow | 566 c1026 (Link to this contribution)
With this it will be convenient to consider Lords amendments 2, 3 10, 11, 15, 16, 26, 27, 34, 41 ...; Maria Miller | 566 c1026 (Link to this contribution)
The title of this Bill might be “Marriage”, but its fabric is about freedom and respect: freedom ...; Gerald Howarth | 566 c1026 (Link to this contribution)
Will my right hon. Friend give way?; Maria Miller | 566 cc1026-7 (Link to this contribution)
If my hon. Friend will give me a moment to make a little more progress, then of course I will giv...; Gerald Howarth | 566 c1027 (Link to this contribution)
I am most grateful to the Minister for giving way. Perhaps she might add to her list of tributes ...; Maria Miller | 566 cc1027-8 (Link to this contribution)
I thank my hon. Friend for making sure that we pay tribute to those on both sides of the debate, ...; Lord Jackson of Peterborough | 566 c1028 (Link to this contribution)
On the Equality Act, will my right hon. Friend explain why it was not considered appropriate to m...; Maria Miller | 566 c1028 (Link to this contribution)
I know that my hon. Friend raises that point for legitimate reasons: he wants to make sure that t...; Stephen Doughty | 566 c1028 (Link to this contribution)
I concur with the Minister on the Equality Act. Indeed, I referred to it a number of times in Com...; Maria Miller | 566 c1028 (Link to this contribution)
The hon. Gentleman, who sat on the Committee, makes a strong point, but we have to recognise that...; Angela Watkinson | 566 c1028 (Link to this contribution)
I thank my right hon. Friend for her detailed clarification on the issues of compulsion on the gr...; Edward Leigh | 566 c1028 (Link to this contribution)
No, they can’t.; Angela Watkinson | 566 c1028 (Link to this contribution)
We can now allow the Bill to progress and legislate on equal rights for gay people.; Maria Miller | 566 c1029 (Link to this contribution)
As always, my hon. Friend makes a powerful comment. I hope that she is right that this lays to re...; David Burrowes | 566 c1029 (Link to this contribution)
I appreciate the assurances being given by my right hon. Friend. She promised that the Government...; Maria Miller | 566 c1029 (Link to this contribution)
I do not think that my hon. Friend heard me right. I said that there are provisions in the Bill a...; John Bercow | 566 c1029 (Link to this contribution)
I fear not, notwithstanding the good intentions of the Minister, on the grounds that those amendm...; Maria Miller | 566 c1029 (Link to this contribution)
Thank you, Mr Speaker, for that guidance. As always, you are extremely helpful. I would never wan...; John Bercow | 566 c1029 (Link to this contribution)
I do not wish to be unhelpful to the Minister, rather the contrary, but my strong impression, and...; Maria Miller | 566 c1030 (Link to this contribution)
Thank you for bringing me into order, Mr Speaker. I would like to move on to Lords amendments 41 ...; John Bercow | 566 c1030 (Link to this contribution)
Order. The Members who are chuntering from a sedentary position with evident disapproval should k...; Edward Leigh | 566 c1030 (Link to this contribution)
On a point of order, Mr Speaker. I would never seek to use irony against you, so do not worry.; John Bercow | 566 c1030 (Link to this contribution)
I am not sure whether I am supposed to be comforted by that observation, but it is on the record....; Maria Miller | 566 cc1030-1 (Link to this contribution)
I think that we should turn the House’s attention to amendments 41 to 44 before we become more si...; Gerald Howarth | 566 c1031 (Link to this contribution)
My right hon. Friend mentions Baroness Stowell, who said in another place that
“marriage do...; Maria Miller | 566 c1031 (Link to this contribution)
My view of marriage is clearly that fidelity can be extremely important. This is something on whi...; John Bercow | 566 c1031 (Link to this contribution)
Order. The Minister has strayed again into the second group. I think that she has in this regard ...; Chris Bryant | 566 c1031 (Link to this contribution)
They are very good officials normally.; John Bercow | 566 c1031 (Link to this contribution)
I note the sedentary observation from the hon. Member for Rhondda (Chris Bryant). The Minister sh...; Yvette Cooper | 566 cc1031-2 (Link to this contribution)
I am pleased to welcome the Bill back to the House, and not only because the Chamber is the only ...; David Burrowes | 566 c1032 (Link to this contribution)
The right hon. Lady talks about the time the other place gave to scrutinising the Bill, which I r...; Yvette Cooper | 566 c1032 (Link to this contribution)
I strongly disagree with the hon. Gentleman. The Lords have debated the Bill extensively and have...; Diane Abbott | 566 c1033 (Link to this contribution)
On the question of celebration, can we spare a thought for those persons, including supporters of...; Chris Bryant | 566 c1033 (Link to this contribution)
And carnations.; Diane Abbott | 566 c1033 (Link to this contribution)
Yes, and carnations. At the end of the day, this is a celebratory occasion and debate.; Yvette Cooper | 566 c1033 (Link to this contribution)
My hon. Friend is exactly right. While we have been debating the Bill, we have been not only lobb...; John Robertson | 566 c1033 (Link to this contribution)
As someone who celebrates his 40th wedding anniversary next month and has had many ups and downs,...; Yvette Cooper | 566 c1033 (Link to this contribution)
My hon. Friend is exactly right, although I would never accuse him, whom I know so well, of growi...; Fiona O'Donnell | 566 c1033 (Link to this contribution)
Would my right hon. Friend add to that list the repeal of section 28? Despite all the concerns, i...; John Bercow | 566 c1033 (Link to this contribution)
Order. It is perhaps understandable, but the remarks on both sides are in danger of causing this ...; Yvette Cooper | 566 c1033 (Link to this contribution)
Indeed, Mr Speaker.; Lord Brennan of Canton | 566 c1034 (Link to this contribution)
Does my right hon. Friend agree that by accepting this group of Lords amendments, we will be comp...; Yvette Cooper | 566 c1034 (Link to this contribution)
In the spirit of your ruling, Mr Speaker, let me say that the reason the points made by my hon. F...; Fiona O'Donnell | 566 c1034 (Link to this contribution)
My right hon. Friend is generous in giving way again. As we have humanist naming ceremonies —she ...; Yvette Cooper | 566 c1034 (Link to this contribution)
That is right. People should be able to have that choice. This is about what are the most importa...; Stephen Doughty | 566 c1034 (Link to this contribution)
I totally concur with the points my right hon. Friend is making about humanist marriage, and I am...; Yvette Cooper | 566 c1035 (Link to this contribution)
My hon. Friend is right. We debated humanism when the Bill was in this place and in Committee, an...; Andrew Turner | 566 c1035 (Link to this contribution)
Could the right hon. Lady assist me by explaining the difference, if there is one, between marria...; Yvette Cooper | 566 c1035 (Link to this contribution)
Weddings are fabulous celebrations, and I really love going to them, but I do not love going to m...; Baroness Keeley | 566 c1035 (Link to this contribution)
rose—; John Bercow | 566 c1035 (Link to this contribution)
Order. I think that the hon. Member for Gainsborough (Sir Edward Leigh) has been celebrating his ...; Baroness Keeley | 566 c1036 (Link to this contribution)
Talking of celebrations, Mr Speaker, I want to celebrate the fact that Labour’s shadow equality t...; Yvette Cooper | 566 c1036 (Link to this contribution)
I thank my hon. Friend for that. My hon. Friend the Member for Stretford and Urmston (Kate Green)...; Mike Freer | 566 c1036 (Link to this contribution)
Would the right hon. Lady be surprised to hear that neither the House of Commons Library nor the ...; Yvette Cooper | 566 c1036 (Link to this contribution)
The hon. Gentleman makes an important point. We also tried to find out through the House of Commo...; Julian Huppert | 566 c1036 (Link to this contribution)
I thank the right hon. Lady for giving way and for her comments earlier about humanist weddings, ...; Yvette Cooper | 566 c1037 (Link to this contribution)
I think the hon. Gentleman would agree that it is right to get an assessment of what the costs sh...; Mike Freer | 566 c1037 (Link to this contribution)
I am grateful to the right hon. Lady, who is being very generous in giving way. Does she agree th...; Yvette Cooper | 566 c1037 (Link to this contribution)
The hon. Gentleman makes exactly the right point about the principle of equality that we should b...; Lord Brennan of Canton | 566 c1037 (Link to this contribution)
Will proposed new subsection (6) in amendment 11, which gives the Secretary of State power to mak...; Yvette Cooper | 566 c1037 (Link to this contribution)
I hope that the Government will be able to make rapid progress and to introduce orders. It is rig...; Diane Abbott | 566 c1038 (Link to this contribution)
Does my right hon. Friend agree that the amendments will be welcomed by members of the transgende...; Yvette Cooper | 566 c1038 (Link to this contribution)
I do. The issue was debated in Committee, but, given the huge effect that the present situation h...; Tim Loughton | 566 c1038 (Link to this contribution)
May I ask the right hon. Lady a question that I should have asked her earlier? The “humanist” ame...; Yvette Cooper | 566 c1038 (Link to this contribution)
I am in favour of a similar, or even more rapid, timetable for the civil partnerships review. In ...; David Burrowes | 566 c1038 (Link to this contribution)
The right hon. Lady has just mentioned discussion and compromise. I am not sure whether we are go...; Yvette Cooper | 566 cc1038-9 (Link to this contribution)
We took the view that the amendment to the Public Order Act was not necessary, because there was ...; Lord Barwell | 566 c1039 (Link to this contribution)
Does the right hon. Lady agree that it is not just attitudes in this House or the other place tha...; Yvette Cooper | 566 c1039 (Link to this contribution)
The hon. Gentleman is exactly right about that change in attitudes, and we heard it from some Mem...; Diane Abbott | 566 c1039 (Link to this contribution)
It is certainly the case that attitudes in this country have changed, but we have still to see mo...; Yvette Cooper | 566 c1040 (Link to this contribution)
I agree with my hon. Friend. As the House of Lords was discussing these amendments, I was talking...; David Burrowes | 566 c1040 (Link to this contribution)
I wish to speak to amendments 1 and 2. Throughout the passage of the Bill, Ministers have acted i...; Lord Brennan of Canton | 566 c1041 (Link to this contribution)
Does the hon. Gentleman accept that parliamentary scrutiny not only consists of tabling amendment...; David Burrowes | 566 cc1041-2 (Link to this contribution)
I agree with the hon. Gentleman. I have been involved in the ups and downs of the Bill, and I hav...; Jim Shannon | 566 c1042 (Link to this contribution)
rose—; David Burrowes | 566 c1042 (Link to this contribution)
I will give way to the hon. Gentleman, and I pay tribute to his diligence and scrutiny throughout...; Jim Shannon | 566 c1042 (Link to this contribution)
The hon. Gentleman has outlined some of the steps forward that the amendments have made in at lea...; David Burrowes | 566 c1042 (Link to this contribution)
I fully recognise that, and I have yet to come to my “but” and the concerns out there, which go b...; Julian Smith | 566 c1042 (Link to this contribution)
Does my hon. Friend agree that the Quakers have played a brilliant role in the passage of this Bi...; David Burrowes | 566 c1043 (Link to this contribution)
I pay tribute to the Quakers and, in particular, to the Winchmore Hill friends meeting house, whe...; Fiona O'Donnell | 566 c1043 (Link to this contribution)
Will the hon. Gentleman give way?; David Burrowes | 566 cc1043-4 (Link to this contribution)
If I may, I shall make a little more progress.
I welcome Lords amendment 53, which is the s...; 566 c1044 (Link to this contribution)
rose—; John Bercow | 566 c1044 (Link to this contribution)
Order. Several colleagues wish to speak. I am keen to accommodate them all, but the logic is unan...; Stephen Doughty | 566 cc1044-5 (Link to this contribution)
It is a genuine pleasure to be able to speak on such an historic occasion. The fact that we are d...; Fiona O'Donnell | 566 c1045 (Link to this contribution)
My hon. Friend is making a powerful contribution to the debate, as he did in the Bill Committee. ...; Stephen Doughty | 566 cc1045-6 (Link to this contribution)
Absolutely. That is the point that has come out in all the debates.
We have also seen prote...; Jim Shannon | 566 c1046 (Link to this contribution)
The hon. Gentleman says that three in every five people with faith support these changes, but tha...; Stephen Doughty | 566 c1046 (Link to this contribution)
rose—; John Bercow | 566 c1046 (Link to this contribution)
Order. I do not think that the point made by the hon. Member for Cardiff South and Penarth (Steph...; Stephen Doughty | 566 c1046 (Link to this contribution)
Thank you for bringing us back into order, Mr Speaker.
At an earlier stage I suggested that...; Julian Huppert | 566 c1046 (Link to this contribution)
This is a monumental day for many people; be they straight, gay, lesbian or bi, they will benefit...; John Bercow | 566 c1047 (Link to this contribution)
Order. It is always of great interest to the House to hear the contents of the hon. Gentleman’s C...; Julian Huppert | 566 c1047 (Link to this contribution)
Thank you very much, Mr Speaker.
Let me turn to Lords amendment 10. It feels that it has be...; Diane Abbott | 566 cc1047-8 (Link to this contribution)
I am glad to speak to this important group of amendments to this important Bill, which is a piece...; Gerald Howarth | 566 c1048 (Link to this contribution)
I am pleased to join in the celebration tonight in so far as I have been able to find one clause ...; Julian Smith | 566 c1049 (Link to this contribution)
Will my hon. Friend give way?; Gerald Howarth | 566 c1049 (Link to this contribution)
Forgive me but I will not give way because a lot of colleagues wish to speak.
I am pleased ...; Jane Ellison | 566 c1049 (Link to this contribution)
Will my hon. Friend give way?; Gerald Howarth | 566 c1049 (Link to this contribution)
I will not, because I have limited time and a lot of colleagues want to speak.
I hope that ...; Jane Ellison | 566 c1049 (Link to this contribution)
rose—; Gerald Howarth | 566 c1049 (Link to this contribution)
I will give way to my hon. Friend in a minute.
Two weeks ago I held a meeting here. I have ...; Chris Bryant | 566 c1049 (Link to this contribution)
Which amendment is this?; Gerald Howarth | 566 cc1049-1050 (Link to this contribution)
This is about freedom of expression, as the hon. Gentleman ought to be aware.
Someone who w...; Jane Ellison | 566 c1050 (Link to this contribution)
My point was about freedom of expression, and I am grateful to my hon. Friend. When we debated th...; Gerald Howarth | 566 c1050 (Link to this contribution)
I thank my hon. Friend for raising that issue. It is interesting that surgeons are not required t...; Maria Miller | 566 c1050 (Link to this contribution)
I apologise for interrupting my hon. Friend’s speech, but it is important that the House is aware...; Gerald Howarth | 566 cc1050-1 (Link to this contribution)
My hon. Friend the Member for East Worthing and Shoreham (Tim Loughton) tells me that there is no...; 566 c1051 (Link to this contribution)
rose—; John Bercow | 566 c1051 (Link to this contribution)
Order. We have 31 minutes remaining. Members can do the arithmetic for themselves.; Fiona O'Donnell | 566 c1051 (Link to this contribution)
It is a pleasure to be able to contribute to this debate on Lords amendments, because this is the...; Gerald Howarth | 566 c1051 (Link to this contribution)
It’s in the Bible.; Fiona O'Donnell | 566 cc1051-3 (Link to this contribution)
I am happy for the hon. Gentleman to heckle me. That is not about freedom expression; it is about...; Diane Abbott | 566 c1053 (Link to this contribution)
Many of my constituents are sad that I am supporting the Bill, but they also know, after more tha...; Fiona O'Donnell | 566 c1053 (Link to this contribution)
My hon. Friend makes another excellent contribution. I am glad that society will be different fro...; 566 c1053 (Link to this contribution)
rose—; John Bercow | 566 c1053 (Link to this contribution)
Order. May I appeal to remaining colleagues wishing to speak, of whom there are seven, to factor ...; Lord Herbert of South Downs | 566 c1053 (Link to this contribution)
I will endeavour to be brief, Mr Speaker.
Lords amendment 53, on freedom of expression, is ...; Gerald Howarth | 566 c1053 (Link to this contribution)
Would my hon. Friend have me prosecuted for it?; Lord Herbert of South Downs | 566 c1054 (Link to this contribution)
My hon. Friend has not listened to a word I have said. I have just said that nobody should be pro...; John Bercow | 566 c1054 (Link to this contribution)
Order. I was just checking that I had not misheard the right hon. Gentleman. Whatever his temptat...; Lord Herbert of South Downs | 566 cc1054-5 (Link to this contribution)
I am very happy to stick to the first group, Mr Speaker.
I hope that Lords amendments 10, 1...; Sheila Gilmore | 566 c1055 (Link to this contribution)
Many of my constituents contacted me who support humanist weddings but were disturbed when they t...; Edward Leigh | 566 c1055 (Link to this contribution)
It is instructive that, despite your valiant efforts, Mr Speaker, this debate has been so discurs...; Chris Bryant | 566 c1055 (Link to this contribution)
You’re smiling now. So you can smile.; Edward Leigh | 566 cc1055-7 (Link to this contribution)
I can smile, yes.
Even a cursory examination of the amendments made in the other place conf...; Nia Griffith | 566 c1056 (Link to this contribution)
First, I pay tribute to my right hon. Friend the Member for Normanton, Pontefract and Castleford ...; Crispin Blunt | 566 c1056 (Link to this contribution)
Having made such arguments on Report, I would like to record how delighted I am that the amendmen...; Nia Griffith | 566 c1056 (Link to this contribution)
I thank the hon. Gentleman for his contribution.
Moving on to pensions and survivor benefit...; Mike Freer | 566 c1058 (Link to this contribution)
First, I pay tribute to both Front-Bench teams—both here and in the other place—for how they have...; Susan Elan Jones | 566 cc1058-9 (Link to this contribution)
I am so pleased that tonight we will pass this Bill, which is clearly good news for the many gay ...
Subjects: Equality Homosexuality Marriage
Legislation: Marriage (Same Sex Couples) Bill 2012-13 to 2013-14
Link: View this Parliamentary proceeding on www.publications.parliament.uk

Marriage (Same Sex Couples) Bill

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