Debate on bill and Committee of the Whole House (HL) on Monday, 8 September 2025, in the House of Lords, led by Lord Hanson of Flint, Lord Lemos and Lord Katz. The answering members were Lord Davies of Gower and Lord Cameron of Lochiel.

Border Security, Asylum and Immigration Bill

Lords committee stage fifth day. Clauses 42 to 48 agreed to.

Secondary information

Type: Parliamentary proceeding
Reference: 848 cc1132-1250
Session: 2024-26
Department: Home Office
Legislative stage: Committee stage
Procedure: New clauses
Chamber / Committee: House of Lords chamber
Related items: Border Security, Asylum and Immigration Bill 2024-26. Brought from the Commons
Tuesday, 13 May 2025
Bills
House of Lords; Border Security, Asylum and Immigration Bill. Constitution Committee tenth report
Wednesday, 11 June 2025
Parliamentary committees
House of Lords; Legislative scrutiny: Border Security, Asylum and Immigration Bill. Joint Committee on Human Rights fourth report
Wednesday, 18 June 2025
Parliamentary committees
House of Commons
House of Lords; Deposited Paper DEP2025-0620
Wednesday, 17 September 2025
Deposited papers
House of Lords; Deposited Paper DEP2025-0624
Tuesday, 23 September 2025
Deposited papers
House of Lords; Deposited Paper DEP2025-0626
Tuesday, 23 September 2025
Deposited papers
House of Lords; Deposited Paper DEP2025-0625
Tuesday, 23 September 2025
Deposited papers
House of Lords; Deposited Paper DEP2025-0656
Tuesday, 23 September 2025
Deposited papers
House of Lords; Deposited Paper DEP2025-0660
Tuesday, 23 September 2025
Deposited papers
House of Lords; Deposited Paper DEP2025-0659
Tuesday, 23 September 2025
Deposited papers
House of Lords; Deposited Paper DEP2025-0696
Thursday, 18 September 2025
Deposited papers
House of Lords; Deposited Paper DEP2025-0695
Tuesday, 16 September 2025
Deposited papers
House of Lords; Deposited Paper DEP2025-0694
Friday, 12 September 2025
Deposited papers
House of Lords
Proceeding contributions: Baroness Bennett of Manor Castle | 848 cc1132-3 (Link to this contribution)
Moved by
Baroness Bennett of Manor Castle
136: After Clause 41, insert the following ...; Baroness Bennett of Manor Castle | 848 cc1133-4 (Link to this contribution)
Noble Lords will note, being terribly observant, that I am not my noble friend Lady Jones of Moul...; Baroness Hamwee | 848 c1134 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, I will speak on the two amendments together. Section 117C, on the deportation of foreig...; Baroness Chakrabarti | 848 cc1134-5 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, I too wish a swift and full recovery to the noble Baroness, Lady Jones of Moulsecoomb. ...; Lord Pannick | 848 c1135 (Link to this contribution)
I too send my best wishes to the noble Baroness, Lady Jones of Moulsecoomb. We shall miss, for a ...; Baroness Hamwee | 848 c1135 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, I am sure the noble Lord is aware that there are particular statutory provisions on add...; Lord Cameron of Lochiel | 848 cc1135-6 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, I too offer best wishes, from these Benches, to the noble Baroness, Lady Jones, for a s...; Lord Hanson of Flint | 848 cc1136-8 (Link to this contribution)
I am grateful to the noble Baroness, Lady Bennett of Manor Castle, for moving the amendment. I ho...; Baroness Bennett of Manor Castle | 848 cc1137-9 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, I thank all noble Lords for their kind wishes to my noble friend. I will certainly be p...; Lord Bach | 848 c1139 (Link to this contribution)
Moved by
Lord Bach
137: After Clause 41, insert the following new Clause—
“Duty...; Lord Bach | 848 cc1139-1142 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, I rise to move Amendment 137. I also declare my registered interest as the unremunerate...; Baroness Prashar | 848 cc1142-3 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, I support this amendment, to which I am a signatory. It has been admirably moved by the...; Lord Carlile of Berriew | 848 cc1143-5 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, I too have put my name to this amendment, and I am very grateful to the noble Lord, Lor...; Baroness Hamwee | 848 c1145 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, self-evidently I am not my noble friend Lady Ludford, but her name is on this amendment...; Lord Kerr of Kinlochard | 848 cc1145-6 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, I support the amendment from the noble Lord, Lord Bach. Had I been awake, I would have ...; Viscount Goschen | 848 c1146 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, all noble Lords who have spoken on the amendment have got a deep understanding of a ver...; Baroness Chakrabarti | 848 cc1146-7 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, I also support the amendment from my noble friend Lord Bach and pay tribute to him not ...; Lord Pannick | 848 cc1147-8 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, I declare my interest as a practising barrister including in immigration cases—sometime...; Lord Empey | 848 cc1148-9 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, not being a lawyer, I feel more qualified to speak on this than anybody else.
The...; Lord Sentamu | 848 c1149 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, I was not going to speak in this debate because we have had a fantastic presentation by...; Lord Davies of Gower | 848 c1150 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, we on these Benches agree that detained persons should, of course, have access to good ...; Lord Hanson of Flint | 848 cc1150-1 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, I am grateful to my noble friend Lord Bach for his amendment and for the support of the...; Lord Carlile of Berriew | 848 c1151 (Link to this contribution)
I am listening very carefully to what the Minister says, but does he not agree that the very high...; Lord Hanson of Flint | 848 c1151 (Link to this contribution)
I am grateful to the noble Lord for that intervention. I do not have before me, although I perhap...; Lord Kerr of Kinlochard | 848 c1152 (Link to this contribution)
So the Goschen/Empey number is neither here nor there. It is not a watertight compartment. The co...; Lord Hanson of Flint | 848 c1152 (Link to this contribution)
I am grateful to the noble Lord, Lord Kerr. I put it to the Committee that I sense that my noble ...; Baroness Chakrabarti | 848 c1152 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, I am grateful to my noble friend the Minister for giving way. While he is still on his ...; Lord Hanson of Flint | 848 cc1152-3 (Link to this contribution)
I am grateful to my noble friend. I draw the Committee back to where we are at the moment: an ind...; Lord Pannick | 848 c1153 (Link to this contribution)
I am very grateful. The noble Lord has been very generous with time on this important matter. I e...; Lord Hanson of Flint | 848 c1153 (Link to this contribution)
I am grateful for that intervention. The points made by the noble Lord, Lord Pannick, are valid a...; Lord Bach | 848 cc1153-4 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, I start by reminding the Committee that in this very complicated and important Bill, th...; Lord Cameron of Lochiel | 848 cc1154-5 (Link to this contribution)
Moved by
Lord Cameron of Lochiel
138: After Clause 41, insert the following new Claus...; Lord Cameron of Lochiel | 848 cc1155-6 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, Amendments 138 and 139 are in my name and that of my noble friend Lord Davies of Gower....; Lord Jackson of Peterborough | 848 cc1156-8 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, it gives me great pleasure to speak to Amendment 203A in my name and to contribute to t...; Lord Pannick | 848 c1158 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, I will add a few words about the noble Lord, Lord Ponsonby: I too greatly appreciated a...; Lord Harper | 848 cc1159-1160 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, I was not able to be here at the opening of the debate on the earlier group, so I hope ...; Baroness Lawlor | 848 c1161 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, I will just intervene on this interesting exchange between the noble Lord, Lord Pannick...; Lord Oates | 848 c1161 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, I will speak very briefly in support of the comments by the noble Lord, Lord Pannick, a...; Lord German | 848 c1161 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, I will make a very brief point in addition to that one. It is interesting that we have ...; Lord Jackson of Peterborough | 848 c1162 (Link to this contribution)
I will respond, with all due respect, to the noble Lord’s comments about minors. We should bear i...; Lord Lexden | 848 c1162 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, the question was posed by my noble friend Lord Jackson—and touched on by, I think, my n...; Lord Hanson of Flint | 848 cc1162-4 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, I am grateful, as ever, to the noble Lords, Lord Cameron and Lord Jackson, for their am...; Lord Harper | 848 c1164 (Link to this contribution)
The Minister has made very clear his approach to the amendments, but I want to press him a bit. T...; Lord Hanson of Flint | 848 cc1164-5 (Link to this contribution)
The noble Lord raises perfectly valid questions. I was clear to the House and have been today to ...; Lord Harper | 848 c1165 (Link to this contribution)
To pick up on a point made by the Minister, he confirmed that the Government are undertaking this...; Lord Hanson of Flint | 848 cc1165-6 (Link to this contribution)
We keep all matters under review. This will go at the pace that it goes at. We will be making fur...; Lord Cameron of Lochiel | 848 c1166 (Link to this contribution)
I am grateful to all the noble Lords who have spoken in this debate, particularly the Minister, w...; Lord Jackson of Peterborough | 848 c1166 (Link to this contribution)
Moved by
Lord Jackson of Peterborough
141: After Clause 41, insert the following new ...; Lord Jackson of Peterborough | 848 cc1166-8 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, I will not detain your Lordships’ House too long with this amendment because it is stra...; Baroness Lawlor | 848 cc1167-1170 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, this group of amendments proposes the means to make transparent one of the constituent ...; Lord Davies of Gower | 848 cc1170-1 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, I thank my noble friend Lord Jackson of Peterborough for his amendment, which seeks to ...; Lord Pannick | 848 cc1171-2 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, I will say something about Amendments 198 and 199, spoken to by the noble Lord, Lord Da...; Baroness Hamwee | 848 c1172 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, the noble Lord has left out of his critique the requirement that the happy couple, as h...; Lord Kerr of Kinlochard | 848 cc1172-3 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, I thank the noble Baroness, Lady Lawlor, for her interesting statistics. As a former ch...; Lord Harper | 848 cc1173-4 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, I want to touch on three matters—two to do with these amendments and one of a more topi...; Lord Jackson of Peterborough | 848 c1174 (Link to this contribution)
Is my noble friend as pleased as I am by the news that the new Home Secretary is a keen reader of...; Lord Harper | 848 cc1174-5 (Link to this contribution)
I am very pleased that my noble friend Lord Jackson raised that, because I read that piece this m...; Lord Lemos | 848 cc1175-7 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, if the noble Lord, Lord Harper, will forgive me, I will not comment on the consequences...; Baroness Lawlor | 848 c1177 (Link to this contribution)
On welcoming overseas students, I accept that good students who come here lawfully can be a great...; Lord Lemos | 848 cc1177-8 (Link to this contribution)
It is not really within my brief to comment on the financing of universities, so the noble Barone...; Lord Jackson of Peterborough | 848 cc1178-9 (Link to this contribution)
I thank the noble Lord, Lord Lemos, for his excellent response. It is the first time I have had t...; Lord Oates | 848 c1180 (Link to this contribution)
Moved by
Lord Oates
142: Clause 42, page 36, line 27, leave out paragraph (a) and ins...; Lord Oates | 848 cc1180-2 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, I am speaking on behalf of my noble friend Lady Ludford, who unfortunately cannot be in...; Lord German | 848 cc1182-3 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, it is a pleasure to support these amendments in the names of my noble friends Lady Ludf...; Lord Deben | 848 c1183 (Link to this contribution)
I do not understand why one should object to protecting people with these four protections in cir...; Lord German | 848 cc1183-4 (Link to this contribution)
The noble Lord is correct. If the Home Office recognises it has made a mistake, then it should ap...; Lord Cameron of Lochiel | 848 c1184 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, I have very little to add except that I await the explanation from the Minister with gr...; Lord Hanson of Flint | 848 cc1184-6 (Link to this contribution)
I am grateful to the noble Lord, Lord Oates, for moving the amendments on behalf of himself and t...; Lord Oates | 848 cc1186-7 (Link to this contribution)
I thank the Minister for his response and for taking time to meet me and my colleagues to discuss...; Lord Davies of Gower | 848 c1187 (Link to this contribution)
Moved by
Lord Davies of Gower
146: Clause 43, page 38, line 30, at end insert—
...; Lord Davies of Gower | 848 cc1187-8 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, I shall speak in support of Amendments 146 and 147, tabled in my name and that of my no...; Lord Anderson of Ipswich | 848 cc1188-1190 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, I have tabled a notice to oppose Clause 43, which has been signed by a former immigrati...; Lord Kirkhope of Harrogate | 848 cc1190-1 (Link to this contribution)
I am very pleased to support the noble Lord, Lord Anderson of Ipswich, and my name is on this ame...; Lord Bach | 848 cc1191-2 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, I am not sure that the amendment in my name ought to be in this group, but it has to be...; Baroness Hamwee | 848 c1192 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, the Committee does not need me to repeat what has been said about Clause 43 by the nobl...; Lord Deben | 848 cc1192-3 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, in an earlier debate on the Bill, my noble friend Lord Cameron of Lochiel reminded me t...; Lord Kerr of Kinlochard | 848 cc1193-4 (Link to this contribution)
I agree with everything that the noble Lord said, although I slightly dissent from his descriptio...; Lord Hanson of Flint | 848 cc1194-5 (Link to this contribution)
I am grateful as ever for the discussion around Clause 43 and for the amendments tabled by His Ma...; Lord Anderson of Ipswich | 848 cc1195-6 (Link to this contribution)
I am grateful to the Minister. He has really said just one thing, which is not in dispute across ...; Lord Hanson of Flint | 848 c1196 (Link to this contribution)
I hope the noble Lord, Lord Anderson of Ipswich, knows from our 13 months or so of engagement wit...; Lord Anderson of Ipswich | 848 c1196 (Link to this contribution)
When the Minister goes back to the policy Minister, will he reassure her that nobody in this deba...; Lord Hanson of Flint | 848 cc1196-7 (Link to this contribution)
That point has been made, and I will discuss that with my colleagues in government. Clause 43 as ...; Lord Davies of Gower | 848 cc1197-8 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, I thank all noble Lords who spoke on this group for their contributions to this debate....; Baroness Hamwee | 848 c1198 (Link to this contribution)
Moved by
Baroness Hamwee
150: Clause 45, page 42, line 9, at end insert—
“(3A) ...; Baroness Hamwee | 848 cc1198-1200 (Link to this contribution)
Tempting as it is to continue the debate we have just had, I will resist. In moving Amendment 150...; Lord German | 848 cc1200-2 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, I will speak to Amendments 151 and 152 in my name, and Amendment 154 in the name of the...; Baroness Lawlor | 848 cc1201-4 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, my Amendment 154A seeks to extend the conditions for someone subject to immigration con...; Lord Watson of Invergowrie | 848 c1204 (Link to this contribution)
I simply want to ask the noble Baroness whether she can explain what the very detailed descriptio...; Baroness Lawlor | 848 c1204 (Link to this contribution)
I will come to that point, if I may. Anyway, there are very stringent rules governing these bikes...; Lord Watson of Invergowrie | 848 cc1204-6 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, I am indebted to the noble Lord, Lord German, for mentioning the very unfortunate accid...; Lord Randall of Uxbridge | 848 cc1205-7 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, I declare my interests as chairman of the Human Trafficking Foundation and chairman of ...; Baroness Bennett of Manor Castle | 848 cc1207-9 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, I rise to offer Green group support for all the amendments in this group, except for Am...; Baroness Kennedy of the Shaws | 848 c1209 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, I want to reiterate what has just been said on Amendment 153. Like the previous speaker...; Lord Jackson of Peterborough | 848 cc1209-1211 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, I oppose Amendments 151 and 152 and endorse and support the amendment of my noble frien...; Lord Kerr of Kinlochard | 848 c1211 (Link to this contribution)
I would like to find that there is something on which I agree with the noble Lord, Lord Jackson o...; Lord Rees of Easton | 848 cc1211-4 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, that may be my cue to speak to my Amendment 155A. I start by pointing to my declaration...; Lord German | 848 c1212 (Link to this contribution)
The noble Lord has reminded me that I have not declared my interest as also being supported by th...; Lord Dubs | 848 c1212 (Link to this contribution)
I very much agree with what my noble friend Lord Rees and the noble Lord, Lord Kerr, have said. I...; Lord Cameron of Lochiel | 848 cc1212-6 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, I join the noble Lord, Lord German, in sending good wishes to the noble Lord, Lord Alto...; Lord Hanson of Flint | 848 cc1216-9 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, this was a very wide-ranging debate on an important group of amendments. I am grateful ...; Lord Kerr of Kinlochard | 848 c1219 (Link to this contribution)
Will the Minister reflect a little more on the amendment proposed by the noble Lord, Lord Rees? H...; Lord Hanson of Flint | 848 cc1219-1220 (Link to this contribution)
I am very grateful to the noble Lord for his experience. As he knows, having been there himself, ...; Baroness Lawlor | 848 c1220 (Link to this contribution)
I seek clarification on something the Minister said. He told the Committee that they were seeking...; Lord Hanson of Flint | 848 c1220 (Link to this contribution)
The noble Baroness raises a number of issues. I start with the question of illegal employment and...; Baroness Hamwee | 848 cc1220-1 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, the Minister, whom I thank, started his response by saying that the Bill is not the rig...; Baroness Hamwee | 848 c1221 (Link to this contribution)
Moved by
Baroness Hamwee
155: Clause 46, page 43, line 28, leave out “reasonably prac...; Baroness Hamwee | 848 cc1221-2 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, this need not, I hope, take anything like as long as the last group of amendments. Clau...; Lord Davies of Gower | 848 c1222 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, at the heart of Amendment 157, in my name and that of my noble friend Lord Cameron of L...; 848 c1223 (Link to this contribution)
That is in the next group.; Lord Davies of Gower | 848 c1223 (Link to this contribution)
I know, I just realised that.; Lord Hanson of Flint | 848 cc1223-4 (Link to this contribution)
I am grateful to the noble Lord. I know that we will have a full discussion on Amendments 203F an...; Baroness Hamwee | 848 c1224 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, the Minister has quite fairly answered the Member’s explanatory statement to my amendme...; Lord Murray of Blidworth | 848 cc1224-5 (Link to this contribution)
Moved by
Lord Murray of Blidworth
158: Clause 48, page 45, line 11, at end insert—; Lord Murray of Blidworth | 848 cc1225-6 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, I declare my interest as a barrister, specialising in public law, including in immigrat...; Baroness Lawlor | 848 c1227 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, I will say a few words in favour of the amendment in the names of the noble Lords, Lord...; Lord Cameron of Lochiel | 848 cc1227-8 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, I will speak to Amendments 159, 160 and 161 in my name before speaking in support of Am...; Lord Katz | 848 cc1228-1230 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, I thank all noble Lords for a short but legally quite forensic debate. It was probably ...; Lord Murray of Blidworth | 848 c1230 (Link to this contribution)
I thank the Minister for that considered reply, and I am glad to say that I agreed with at least ...; Baroness Neuberger | 848 cc1230-1 (Link to this contribution)
Moved by
Baroness Neuberger
162: After Clause 48, insert the following new Clause—; Baroness Neuberger | 848 cc1231-4 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, I will channel my inner version of the noble Baroness, Lady Lister, since she is not in...; Baroness Hamwee | 848 cc1234-5 (Link to this contribution)
My noble friend Lady Brinton added her name to all these amendments. I was happy that she did so....; Lord Davies of Gower | 848 cc1235-6 (Link to this contribution)
This is an important set of amendments, but I am sure it will come as no surprise to the noble Lo...; Lord Hanson of Flint | 848 cc1236-8 (Link to this contribution)
I am grateful to the noble Baroness, Lady Neuberger, for becoming the noble Baroness, Lady Lister...; Baroness Hamwee | 848 c1238 (Link to this contribution)
As the substitute for the noble Baroness, Lady Brinton, I would like to make a point about AI. It...; Baroness Neuberger | 848 c1238 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, I echo totally what the noble Baroness, Lady Hamwee, has just said. In my speech, I ask...; Lord Hanson of Flint | 848 c1238 (Link to this contribution)
The Government are examining all of this, and there will need to be some further consideration. I...; Baroness Neuberger | 848 cc1238-9 (Link to this contribution)
I thank the Minister for his reply. That is what we wanted to hear, and I very much hope we might...; Lord German | 848 c1239 (Link to this contribution)
Moved by
Lord German
164: After Clause 48, insert the following Clause—
“Additi...; Lord German | 848 cc1239-1241 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, in moving Amendment 164, I will speak to Amendment 173, which is also in my name. Both ...; Baroness Kennedy of the Shaws | 848 cc1241-3 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, I will speak to Amendments 203B and 203C in this grouping, which I have signed, but I a...; Lord Cameron of Lochiel | 848 cc1242-5 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, in speaking to the amendments in this group, I make it clear that we all recognise the ...; Baroness Hamwee | 848 c1246 (Link to this contribution)
Can the noble Lord be tempted to express support for Amendment 203C? On his test of support by th...; Lord Lemos | 848 cc1246-8 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, I thank all noble Lords, at such a late hour, for their contributions, and I add my goo...; Lord German | 848 cc1248-9 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, I was fascinated by what sounded to me like illogical statements. Can I be absolutely c...; Baroness Kennedy of the Shaws | 848 cc1249-1250 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, if I may, I first thank the new Minister for his response to the amendments that I plac...
Notes: Scottish and Northern Ireland legislative consent granted, Welsh legislative consent sought.
Subjects: Children Appeals Asylum Detainees Deportation Employment Families Human rights Legal aid scheme Immigration controls Immigration Undocumented migrants Foreign nationals Migrants EU nationals Domestic service Offenders Protection Parents Overseas students Refugees Visas Migrant workers Slavery Resettlement Age assurance Immigration bail Undocumented workers
Legislation: Border Security, Asylum and Immigration Bill 2024-26
Link: View this Parliamentary proceeding on hansard.parliament.uk

Border Security, Asylum and Immigration Bill

Secondary information

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