The hon. Gentleman is right: what we want is a world without cluster munitions. We therefore hope that, in the end, every country will sign up to and ratify the convention and cease using cluster munitions. By signing up to the convention, they would also commit themselves to encourage others...

The hon. Gentleman is right: what we want is a world without cluster munitions. We therefore hope that, in the end, every country will sign up to and ratify the convention and cease using cluster munitions. By signing up to the convention, they would also commit themselves to encourage others...

The Minister slightly skipped over the Government's change of heart. Initially we agreed to ban the dumb weapons, such as the BL755 and the M26, but we would continue to use the smart versions. That position has now changed, but given that it was clearly thought at the time that...

The Minister slightly skipped over the Government's change of heart. Initially we agreed to ban the dumb weapons, such as the BL755 and the M26, but we would continue to use the smart versions. That position has now changed, but given that it was clearly thought at the time that...

The hon. Gentleman is right to raise the question of how the measure impacts on the armed forces. The MOD has worked with clear and swift purpose to ensure that there is no conflict for individual members of our armed forces. In particular, in Committee we may wish to look...

The hon. Gentleman is right to raise the question of how the measure impacts on the armed forces. The MOD has worked with clear and swift purpose to ensure that there is no conflict for individual members of our armed forces. In particular, in Committee we may wish to look...

I have a choice, but I will give way first to the hon. Member for Westbury (Dr. Murrison).

I have a choice, but I will give way first to the hon. Member for Westbury (Dr. Murrison).

The Government are right to introduce the Bill, but I hope that the Minister is managing his expectations, for the reasons cited by my hon. Friend the Member for Bournemouth, East (Mr. Ellwood). In particular, I would mention the use of white phosphorus, which we abhor but which is being...

The Government are right to introduce the Bill, but I hope that the Minister is managing his expectations, for the reasons cited by my hon. Friend the Member for Bournemouth, East (Mr. Ellwood). In particular, I would mention the use of white phosphorus, which we abhor but which is being...

My hon. and gallant Friend the Member for North-East Milton Keynes (Mr. Lancaster) made reference to the BL755 and the M26 multiple rocket launch system, which are dumb munitions. There could be munitions from other countries—the United States—on British soil that will remain here after we have passed the Bill,...

My hon. and gallant Friend the Member for North-East Milton Keynes (Mr. Lancaster) made reference to the BL755 and the M26 multiple rocket launch system, which are dumb munitions. There could be munitions from other countries—the United States—on British soil that will remain here after we have passed the Bill,...

We are talking about war. If we are going to fight wars, we have to equip our troops with every possible thing that they might need to do so.

We are talking about war. If we are going to fight wars, we have to equip our troops with every possible thing that they might need to do so.

Will it be possible for the MOD and Foreign Office to produce a paper before the Committee stage explaining the reasons why the Government's decision has changed? That would be very helpful to hon. Members.

Will it be possible for the MOD and Foreign Office to produce a paper before the Committee stage explaining the reasons why the Government's decision has changed? That would be very helpful to hon. Members.

The interoperability rules in both the convention and the Bill deal with precisely those circumstances, although the hon. Gentleman is right to draw attention to the fact that people need legal certainty, whether they are commanding officers or under the command of others. Clearly a member of the British armed...

The interoperability rules in both the convention and the Bill deal with precisely those circumstances, although the hon. Gentleman is right to draw attention to the fact that people need legal certainty, whether they are commanding officers or under the command of others. Clearly a member of the British armed...

I apologise if—

I apologise if—

I would like to get something clear in my mind. Where we have been involved with other countries that might have obtained cluster munitions through our military forces, is there an onus on us to ask them to destroy those cluster munitions? Is there anything in the Bill that could...

I would like to get something clear in my mind. Where we have been involved with other countries that might have obtained cluster munitions through our military forces, is there an onus on us to ask them to destroy those cluster munitions? Is there anything in the Bill that could...

The hon. Gentleman has made the point as well as I could, so I need not elucidate.

The hon. Gentleman has made the point as well as I could, so I need not elucidate.

The Minister mentions moral peril. Will he explain to the House why the 36 people who are clearing the minefields in the Falklands are from Zimbabwe, as I know that his Government would very much like to have those African people working in Africa?

The Minister mentions moral peril. Will he explain to the House why the 36 people who are clearing the minefields in the Falklands are from Zimbabwe, as I know that his Government would very much like to have those African people working in Africa?

I have not personally been involved in any discussions with NATO on this, but I think the hon. Gentleman is pointing in the wrong direction as to where an agreement is needed. The first step is to try to secure universal acceptance of the convention. That would mean there is...

I have not personally been involved in any discussions with NATO on this, but I think the hon. Gentleman is pointing in the wrong direction as to where an agreement is needed. The first step is to try to secure universal acceptance of the convention. That would mean there is...

I am grateful to the Minister for giving away again. I think that our interventions are helping to tease out some of the issues. This goes to the heart of what we are trying to achieve. We are trying to prevent future generations from stepping on cluster munitions, mines, or...

I am grateful to the Minister for giving away again. I think that our interventions are helping to tease out some of the issues. This goes to the heart of what we are trying to achieve. We are trying to prevent future generations from stepping on cluster munitions, mines, or...

Do not conflicts tend to be fashionable? When I was in Bosnia, we were involved in a great deal of de-mining activity. As soon as the Kosovo conflict started, many non-governmental organisations and charities that had been working in Bosnia moved to Kosovo. The same happened with Iraq and Afghanistan....

Do not conflicts tend to be fashionable? When I was in Bosnia, we were involved in a great deal of de-mining activity. As soon as the Kosovo conflict started, many non-governmental organisations and charities that had been working in Bosnia moved to Kosovo. The same happened with Iraq and Afghanistan....

You seem to be getting a very sore throat this afternoon, Mr. Speaker, given all your coughing during lengthy interventions. The hon. Gentleman has made a fair point. It is right that we should want to rectify what we, the United Kingdom, have done around the world and, for that...

You seem to be getting a very sore throat this afternoon, Mr. Speaker, given all your coughing during lengthy interventions. The hon. Gentleman has made a fair point. It is right that we should want to rectify what we, the United Kingdom, have done around the world and, for that...

My hon. Friend rightly drew attention to DFID's mine clearance work, and I agree with him that we have a honourable record, but is it not one of the tragedies that development aid money must be diverted to mine or cluster munition clearance?

My hon. Friend rightly drew attention to DFID's mine clearance work, and I agree with him that we have a honourable record, but is it not one of the tragedies that development aid money must be diverted to mine or cluster munition clearance?

I agree. In 2003, when I went to Bosnia on the armed forces parliamentary scheme, we saw how much work remained to be done. I believe that Bosnia is one of the most mined places on the planet, but because the conflict has moved on, we are now worrying about...

I agree. In 2003, when I went to Bosnia on the armed forces parliamentary scheme, we saw how much work remained to be done. I believe that Bosnia is one of the most mined places on the planet, but because the conflict has moved on, we are now worrying about...

I am grateful for that intervention and very pleased that my hon. and gallant Friend has placed that tribute on the record. The sacrifices that our armed forces make, sometimes the ultimate sacrifice, should never be forgotten. We had some discussion about smart and dumb cluster bombs. I hope that...

I am grateful for that intervention and very pleased that my hon. and gallant Friend has placed that tribute on the record. The sacrifices that our armed forces make, sometimes the ultimate sacrifice, should never be forgotten. We had some discussion about smart and dumb cluster bombs. I hope that...