---

Cluster Munitions (Prohibitions) Bill [Lords]

I am grateful for that intervention and very pleased that my hon. and gallant Friend has placed that tribute on the record. The sacrifices that our armed forces make, sometimes the ultimate sacrifice, should never be forgotten. We had some discussion about smart and dumb cluster bombs. I hope that the Bill does not distinguish between the two. A dumb cluster bomb is one that is not designed to explode after a certain time but simply lands and waits for somebody to step on it, whereas a smart one is supposed to overcome that problem and end up exploding of its own accord so that it does not become dangerous ordnance in the aftermath of war. Either way, they are considered as force multipliers, and I am pleased that we are removing those aspects of war. However, as we have heard time and again, it is all very well our stepping forward and making this noble gesture to remove our arsenal of those weapons, but there are still countries, some of them military allies, that are not only using these weapons but manufacturing them. My hon. Friend the Member for Leominster made the important point that if countries such as China are making these weapons, who on earth are they exporting them to? We do not know, but we do know that we might end up bumping into them in one part of the world or another. There was much talk about matters closer to home—European countries that have yet to ratify the convention. I was also astonished to hear that half the Commonwealth countries, with which one would assume that we have good relationships, have yet to sign the convention, and that a number of European countries—about a third of the European Union—have yet to do so. Again, we do not know where they are exporting to. Eighty-five countries continue to have stockpiles of weapons. I would be keen to learn whether the Minister thinks that all those countries will have destroyed their stockpiles by the time that we have got rid of ours. Mention was made of Diego Garcia and other British territories overseas. As the Minister said in response to my intervention, we may well ask the Americans to remove their cluster munitions from our soil, but can he guarantee that the same will apply in other locations around the world where we have a British interest? How will compliance with these measures be confirmed? Is there a UN team that will go in to inspect, or will it simply be done by good will? Is there some form of inspectorate? How will we formally know that this is taking place? My hon. Friend the Member for Aylesbury (Mr. Lidington) raised the issue of financing, and I encourage the Minister to respond to that. We are a cornerstone, internationally and globally, of the financial markets. How can we ensure that our own markets are not used, from a banking perspective, to support companies that may wish to continue to make these munitions? Something that is missing from the convention itself, let alone the Bill, is a sense of responsibility on the part of countries such as ourselves who have used these munitions in the past but are perhaps not doing enough to clear up the mess having left that legacy behind. The Minister was right to point out that, through DFID, we are doing an awful lot to pay for the existing clear-up, but what a shame that we did not include in the convention a retrospective element according to which signatories are asked to consider what they can do in the former war zones in which they fought to assist with the removal of mines. My hon. Friend the Member for Leominster pointed out that Africans are carrying out the clear-up in Argentina—[Interruption.] I am sorry—in the Falklands, not Argentina. I am loth to encourage too many Argentines to make their homes in the Falklands, given the current circumstances. Nevertheless, there is something morally right in seeing an Argentine ordnance team working to remove the munitions that they placed, as well as working with the British to remove the ordnance that we put down. As I said, Argentine ordnance is down there as well, which is why legacy should also be important in the clean-up process.