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Prevention and Suppression of Terrorism

Any organisation that provided or displayed support, or any individual who displayed support, for an organisation that was proscribed would be committing a criminal offence. Therefore, wherever the publication was—in a book or on a website—it ought to fall within those criteria. But the hon. Gentleman knows that there is often difficulty in dealing with matters involving the internet, because although prosecutions can be brought against domestic website hosts, it is sometimes more difficult to instigate prosecutions around foreign servers. That is a problem we face not just in this field, but when we deal with issues such as paedophilia and selling illegal products. Yesterday, I discussed the problems relating to selling guns on the internet, which is an easier issue for companies to deal with domestically than abroad. The Terrorism Bill will include provisions to deal with dissemination of material and websites. This illustrates the need for absolutely first-class co-operation between different countries in the international community, so that we can act together rather than individually. The hon. Member for Orkney and Shetland (Mr. Carmichael) raised again the issue of transparency of process. I take his point, and it is important that we are as transparent as possible. I do not know what other jurisdictions do when they have their proscription debates, but the explanatory memorandum provides a fair degree of information and transparency for Members. He said that proscription will not solve the problem, which I entirely accept: proscription is simply another tool that we can use to try to create a hostile environment for terrorists in this country. I well remember our controversial debates about control orders and whether those would provide a hostile environment for terrorists in this country, on which people took different views. A range of powers are available, and we must look to use as many powers as we can to protect this country. Therefore, proscription is a useful power, but it will certainly not resolve the situation overnight. We should not hesitate to use it, however, when applicable. I hope that Liberal Democrat Members will support our Terrorism Bill provisions that seek to strengthen our powers against terrorism and to provide such a hostile environment. My hon. Friend the Member for Nottingham, South raised the question of whether all the organisations concerned were on the American list. My information is that Al Ittihad Al Islamia is proscribed by Canada but not America; Hezb-e Islami Gulbuddin is also proscribed by Canada; Lashkar-e Jhangvi is proscribed by Pakistan, America, Canada, Australia and the UN; Sipah-e Sahaba Pakistan is proscribed by Pakistan; and the Libyan Islamic Fighting Group is proscribed by the US but also by Canada and the UN. Therefore, we are not simply receiving representations from America about the need for proscription. It is important to put that on the record. Although we are considering Islamic extremist groups today, groups from a range of different faiths and backgrounds have been proscribed in the past: ETA; the International Sikh Youth Federation; Babbar Khalsa, a group campaigning for the Sikh homeland; and the Liberation Tigers of Tamil. Therefore, it is right to emphasise that this is not simply about proscribing Muslim groups. It is about trying to see where the threat is, and taking appropriate action to meet the level of threat that faces us. I would not want to give the impression that we are acting in any other way. Fourteen different Irish groups are also proscribed, so proscribed organisations are from many different religious backgrounds and none. The hon. Member for Newark stressed the importance of the public being aware of the nature of the threat, which he is right to do. I have had many debates with him, and it is also right that the public should be alert but not alarmed. A balance must be struck, and we are seeking to use all the tools at our disposal to make this the most hostile environment possible for terrorists, and to have sensible powers that strengthen our ability to disrupt, prosecute and bring terrorists to justice in our country. I am very pleased by the tenor of today’s debate, and as we move into debates on the Terrorism Bill in the next few weeks, I hope that we can continue that constructive engagement and that we will have some extremely good law at the end of the debate.