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Charities Bill [HL]

My Lords, that is irresistible reasoning. My amendment is directed at a situation where a charity has endowed property in the form of land—sometimes called in specie land—which is surplus to its requirements; or at least where the land could better be used by its being sold and invested in other land; or, more likely, sold and invested in buildings on the land. The amendment in my name would, subject to its provisions, allow the trustees of the charity, without recourse to the Charity Commission, to go ahead with the sale—and to use the proceeds on a building which had an expected life of not less than 75 years, or on other land used for the purposes of the charity. Secondly, it would allow that to be done without the need for recoupment. The noble Lord, Lord Hodgson, put it well; there is a burden of recoupment, especially as it normally has to come out of the charity’s income. Imagine a charity realising £1 million on the sale of some land which it was going to use for a building for its own purposes; there might then be a recoupment order which would so reduce the net income of the charity, year to year, as to make the whole venture impractical. Amendment No. 15 therefore says that, if its conditions are to be complied with, then, first, the excluded endowment, as it is called,"““is surplus to . . . current and foreseeable needs””;" secondly, that,"““the trustees are satisfied that the purposes of the charity could be carried out more effectively””," if that excluded land were to be sold and the proceeds used for purchasing other land and erecting new buildings; thirdly and importantly, if it be the latter—that is to say, the funds are to be used for the building of premises—a qualified architect must certify that the expected life of the new buildings is,"““not less than 75 years””." Then, to bolt and bar the arrangement, because it is quite a radical departure from the current one, the Charity Commission, in looking at the resolution of the trustees importing the provisions of this amendment, would have to be satisfied,"““as to the wishes of the donor””," and take those into account. It should also take into account,"““changes in the circumstances relating to the charity””," since the making of the land that is being sold. Thirdly, it would have to have regard to,"““the spirit of the gift or gifts””." Provided it was satisfied on those three counts, there would be a more or less automatic endorsement of the resolution of the trustees to get on with the sale for the purposes mentioned. I hope that the noble Lord, Lord Hodgson, will identify himself with my remarks. It seems to me to be an exception to the hitherto iron rule protecting endowment in the form of land. It is practical and it will speed the better use by charities of surplus land. It should therefore be encouraged by the Government. I hope that the amendment will commend itself to the Minister.