---

Violent Crime Reduction Bill

I am very grateful to the noble Lord, Lord Thomas of Gresford, for his support for the amendment. I made it clear that it is a probing amendment, but it is a matter which I take extremely seriously. The Minister has said that he is sympathetic to the amendment’s aims but is not convinced that it achieves its objective. I made it clear that I accept that, as a first attempt, the amendment is not necessarily perfect—what amendment ever is? Between now and Report I shall talk to noble Lords to see whether there is a better way of drafting it. I do not think that this is a huge step to take. The Minister said that it would criminalise the observing of an offence, but it would criminalise only the observing where the person is taking a record; the actual observation itself would not be criminalised. It would be an offence if someone took a permanent record of an incident for gratification of himself or herself or another. The Government introduced the concept of gratification in the Sexual Offences Act, so the relevant definition is already available. The Minister said that you can take such things into account as an aggravating factor. But it is important to have clarity whereby we give out a signal that this behaviour, which is modern—as the noble Lord, Lord Thomas of Gresford, said, it reflects a modern use of cameras—is not acceptable. I shall work on this between Committee and Report, talk to noble Lords and, of course, seek the Government’s advice to see whether they can make any movement on this. In the mean time, I beg leave to withdraw the amendment. Amendment, by leave, withdrawn. Clauses 51 to 55 agreed to. Schedule 4 [Repeals]: