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Legislative and Regulatory Reform Bill

My Lords, there are a number of points noble Lords have raised that it is worth my responding to. It is wonderful to watch the noble Lord, Lord Kingsland, designing this procedure. I am quite sure that with the abilities of the noble Lords, Lord Kingsland and Lord Goodhart, and other noble Lords, we will be able to find a solution. I say to the noble Lord, Lord Jenkin, that we did not put the clause in to start discussions. The Law Commission proposals were in the original Clause 1. I am quite happy to eat humble pie and say we got this wrong, which is why I am deleting the clause. I am delighted that in conversations I have had with noble Lords across the House, they have tried to find a solution. Like the noble Lord, Lord Kingsland, I believe that with a fair wind we might be able to do that. If that is the case, I have no problems about the amount of humble pie that I might eat between now and then. As ever, the noble Baroness, Lady Carnegy, asked what would happen in Scotland. The new procedure will be available for the Scottish Law Commission, but not for those matters that are within the competence of the Edinburgh Parliament, as I understand it. The noble Lord, Lord Norton of Louth, nods his head. I trust his judgment on all these questions, so I am sure that I have that right. The noble Baroness raised some very fundamental points. Any Law Commission report must go out for consultation, so the Government would consult in any event. I accept that any changes that need to be made would need to involve the Law Commission. At this stage I do not know how we should do that, but I take the point that the Law Commission will have a strong view, and that that needs to be reflected either in what the Government do or in what a committee does and so on. There is no difference between us on that; we are simply debating how we do it. I also accept the point about the late decision. The noble Lords, Lord Kingsland and Lord Goodhart, the noble and learned Lord, Lord Lloyd of Berwick, who is not in his place, and I have already deliberated what that might look like. Changes may be made which the Government could not accept or the Law Commission or the House did not like. We need to find ways in which changes can be made and properly reflected. I agree that we have to work out how to deal with controversial issues when they might not be controversial in a party political sense or in your Lordships’ House in the broader sense of involving the Cross Benches, but could be controversial for particular stakeholders. Almost inevitably there may be some controversy. I take the point that we have to find a procedure whereby that can be properly reflected and dealt with. I do not know whether we should recommit the Bill. I am conscious that it needs to complete its passage speedily and safely. I hope that we will find an appropriate mechanism. Your Lordships’ House is extremely good at coming up with a procedure that will enable us to have the debate that noble Lords want. I trust that whatever comes forward will already have had much debate among all interested noble Lords long before it reaches your Lordships’ House. We need something that is acceptable not only to your Lordships’ House but to another place and particularly to the committees that have so rightly criticised what we have done thus far. As I said, I am very grateful to everybody who has participated in this debate. Having eaten humble pie, I find it reassuring that there is a great deal of good will that we should try to find a way through this matter that will enable some very important work that has been done by the Law Commission to find its way appropriately on to the statute book.