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Europe in the World (EUC Report)

My Lords, I cannot tell the House because Brussels does not keep the statistics—exactly the reason I gave less than 20 seconds ago. I do not think it has changed in that period. I can tell your Lordships that we had 13 secondees at senior levels in the FCO during our presidency, and we want to continue that pattern. We will want to take forward, as the noble Lords, Lord Bowness and Lord Roper, have said today, relations with the European and national parliaments. There is a good deal of work to be done, and nolack of enthusiasm about doing that. In our view, commissioners should most certainly make that one of the priorities. If there is to be a meaningful democratic process in any parliament, it must be one where the information provided comes from those people who carry the major responsibilities for the work. As for public support, the noble Lord, Lord Teverson, has made a strong case for making sure that people know of the EU’s achievements, many of which he has set out. I agree with him about them. The noble Lord, Lord Wallace, has suggested that perhaps we have not taken as leading a role as we could. The Committee was more generous to us in recognising what we have done, and I appreciate that. I do not believe we are wanting in that area, and if anyone believed that others are much more forward, they would have to give me an account that I could understand of why, despite France and the Netherlands being so forward on this issue, their referendums turned out as they did. Engaging public support is critical for any political institution. We agree with the general force of the argument put forward by the sub-committee. In this debate the noble Lord, Lord Bowness, has led the way in valuing the EU’s work, as have the noble Lord, Lord Teverson, and others. I follow in their footsteps for a few moments. The external policies of the EU have seen considerable successes, which have come generally from closer co-ordination, the subject of this debate. In my view they all need to meet a test that I have put to the House before; namely, that we should say, when we do things: does closer co-ordination add value to what we are doing, or does it not? There are pragmatic judgments about that. There is a world role in doing these thingswell, as the noble Lord, Lord Teverson, said. He mentioned trade and soft power, and the noble Lord, Lord Roper, said—and I agree with him—that we can achieve that; it helps weld the pillars together and make more sense of the work overall. I would like to comment on the common foreign and security policy. Through the EU common positions, one aspect of the CFSP which we are able to say to third states—be it the Zimbabwean regime, the Governments of Iran, Sudan or Belarus—is that all 27 states of the European Union share a common view of their behaviour. Thus our messages, and sometimes the demands we make, carry much greater weight. But the CFSP, as many of your Lordships will know, is more than just a declaratory tool. We currently have nine European security and defence policy missions deployed outside the Union; these include peacekeepers, military observers, police mentors in Bosnia—some of the areas that the noble Lord, Lord Roper, mentioned—work in Sudan and the Democratic Republic of Congo. We have border monitors and police mentors in Gaza; we are training the Iraqi Justice Ministry officials. In addition, this year we will see the deployment of two new civilian missions to Kosovo and Afghanistan to focus on rule of law issues. There is hard evidence that these policies are delivering for the EU, but they are also delivering for the United Kingdom. Those are just as much our objectives—as, indeed, are the EU’s significant external financial instruments. There again, we see how co-operation delivers for both the EU and the UK. To an extent, all these instruments do what it says on the tin. Across the world, they are focused on three core political objectives: to provide stability, security and prosperity in the EU’s neighbourhood; to support sustainable development at an international level; and to promote responsible political governance and global stability. Those objectives are why people wish to join an enlarging EU. It drives those values right through the countries that prepare for membership and then join. Enlargement must be one of the most satisfactory outcomes in the progress towards a peaceful continent that probably any of us have seen in our lifetime. I will say no more about enlargement because of time, but I believe that it is fundamental to our objectives. I will in a moment please or upset the noble Lord, Lord Pearson, with my response to his points. My noble friend Lord Harrison mentioned the need for greater depth in European experience and referred to the Prime Minister’s speech. I think the Prime Minister was making the point that we need balances between our key alliances; Europe has to play a real role in those balances. The noble Lord, Lord Dykes, also set out the importance of European roles, aside from, but preferably not in conflict with, the United States. The noble Baroness, Lady Hooper, is right to remind us of the other institutions in Europe and the need to work closely with them to avoid too much duplication. But it is true that in the Council of Europe—which reaches far further, to 46 states—there are areas in which very real achievements can be had by making sure that that work continues successfully. I am wholly with the noble Baroness on that point. I hope that the noble Lord, Lord Pearson, will not mind my saying that I feel as though we have been round this circuit more than a few times. I do not accept that there will be a successful Europe which is based only on a set of trading relationships, with no social dimension and no other cohesion involved. It is hard to think of an example in world history that has achieved that. Mostly obligations to one another so that one can live in a civilised way with one another are part of the objective. I hear what the noble Lord says about Mr Barroso and the treaty of Nice, but I think I can summarise the point in the way that Professor Alan Dashwood did in the evidence he gave the committee, when he said that there was no legal impediment to the creation of an external action service. This is a reference to the Commission staff and the Council secretariat working together, often informally, but much more closely and to greater effect. I repeat the point that I have made in answers to the noble Lord before. A formal European external action service, such as the one defined in the constitutional treaty, with a legally defined role, will need a treaty base that it does not currently have. Whatever is said by anyone else, that is our view. It has been a very important and useful debate. Of course, it would be great, as the noble Lord, Lord Wallace, says, to have more common policy when, for example, we meet the Russians, but the immediate history of all 27 nations and their relations with Russia in its former Soviet Union mode shows that it will be some time before we will get to that point. It is work in progress, as is evident when you talk to the representatives of those countries. However we look at it—whether we think that the progress is fast enough or not—this debate has demonstrated that European Union Sub-Committee C has produced an excellent report that focuses on how we can be more effective in some of the areas that are vital to the United Kingdom. They are important for the EU but much more vital for the United Kingdom. We will keep the House informed of developments in that area through regular contact and correspondence with the European Union Select Committee and in the debates that we have among your Lordships.