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House of Lords: Reform

My Lords, it was with some diffidence that I put my name down to speak in this debate. My reasons were that all the arguments had already been aired many times before, and I would guess that all but a handful of noble Lords have long since made up their minds about how they are going to vote. In addition, the noble and learned Lords, Lord Irvine of Lairg and Lord Howe, have presented my arguments far better than I ever could. However, two factors have overcome my reserve. First, I ought perhaps to declare a passing family interest in these matters, stretching back for nearly a century. Although my distinguished ancestor held a more jaundiced view of this place than I do, times and circumstances have changed markedly in the intervening period, a point powerfully made by the noble Lord, Lord Steel of Aikwood. The House of Lords has become more expert, more hardworking, more representative, more finely balanced and, indeed, less party political—all factors of which he would have approved. My second reason for taking part is that I was engaged in the first attempt at discussing Lords reform in what, if I may so describe it, is the current burst of activity on the subject. It was more than 11 years ago that the late Earl Carnarvon, on his own initiative, got together a small group to start a discussion on the reform of this House. Of that number, apart from myself, only the noble Earl, Lord Selborne, whom I am glad to see in the House today, and our very able Clerk, Mr Douglas Slater, remain. As an informal group we did not feel it was appropriate to make any recommendations, but merely to concentrate on the role and work of the House and to list some of the options available for its reform. In performing that self-allotted task, we were extremely grateful to have been able to obtain the views of many distinguished parliamentarians at the time. I hope that noble Lords will not feel that I am being unduly biased when I say that, on re-reading the report, I feel it may have been a helpful contribution to early thinking on the subject. Later, as a Cross-Bencher in the office of the then Convenor, my noble friend Lord Weatherill, I had a peripheral role in the continuing negotiations on questions relating to reform. I say immediately that I share the reported early views of the Prime Minister and the Leader of the Commons; namely, that this should be an all-appointed House. I much regret their departure from that position, which is no doubt due to political, rather than rational, considerations, a change of view that is sometimes inevitable in the toing and froing of parliamentary tactics. The Government White Paper, I think it is fair to say, has hardly been received with acclaim. In view of some of the detailed comment contained in it, however, that is a pity. Its commitment to a Statutory Appointments Committee is to be welcomed, particularly if, like me, you feel that such a committee should play a major role—the major role—in the future of this place. Further, if there is to be a hybrid House, and I fear that there is every likelihood that that may well be so, there is something to be said, despite certain views to the contrary expressed today, for basing future constituencies on the European pattern, with elections at the same time as those for the European Parliament in order to maximise voter participation. However, the White Paper does not recognise sufficiently the dangers of a ““them and us”” culture being created within the membership in any hybrid House, a point that has already been made this evening. It is also surely right that the House should continue to have its own Ministers. I do not, however, propose to go into detail extensively, since many speakers have already done so or will do so. I shall merely comment on various points that seem to be of the greatest importance. Certain questions can quickly be asked. What sort of democratic legitimacy is there in partially closed list elections? Voters in various parts of the country have already experienced this so-called ““benefit”” with mixed feelings. As we have just heard, how much accountability can be expected from someone elected for 15 years with no possibility of standing thereafter? How can one ensure the same degree of experience and knowledge as is available in the House today from those who may have tried, and failed, to get into the Commons or European Parliament first? The noble Lord, Lord Lipsey, has already provided his own carefully crafted estimate for the additional cost that all these proposals may entail. As a Cross-Bencher or, if I may use the more appropriate term, independent, I welcome and fully support the important points made by my noble friend the Convenor and my noble friend Lord Bledisloe. Whatever may be said, the greater the elected number in the new House, the greater the threat posed to the precious 20 per cent quota for independents. In the event of an all-elected House, it is difficult to see how any independents could survive. Indeed, with a fully elected House, in my view we might just as well have a unicameral system in this country, for diversity of opinion and independence of thought would be banished and we would be in the vice-like grip of party machines and party patronage will reach new heights. Some reform that would be, and some contribution to winning back voter disenchantment. The White Paper acknowledges that many of those appointed to the Lords to date by the Appointments Commission have, "““made important contributions to discussions in the House on key matters””." As a committed supporter of the appointment route to reform, I enlarge on that cautious and rather measured compliment. As a Cross-Bencher I am perhaps as well placed as any noble Lord to declare unequivocally from personal experience over many months that the quality of those coming in by this route has been quite outstanding over many different areas. I apologise for any embarrassment I may cause my noble friends by saying this but it is a relevant point that must be made in these discussions again and again. Anyone who believes that similar talent can be unearthed by, say, election from a partially open regional list system is living in cloud-cuckoo-land. This House, and more importantly this country and its future laws, would be very much the poorer for such a change. It is surely a remarkable irony that as the percentage of votes cast in general elections continues to decline, so the clamour for increasing the number of elections held increases. There are those, of course, who would seek elections for every post, from judges to quango members, but what really matters surely is whether the people chosen are up to the mark for the job they are required to do. No one would claim that this House is perfect, far from it, but its breadth of knowledge and experience guarantees that its debates will be informative and productive and that its recommendations on legislation will, for the most part, be constructive. If we tamper thoughtlessly with this place too much in future to attain some democratic nirvana, we will inevitably end up seriously damaging Parliament itself. I accordingly invite noble Lords on Wednesday to vote for an all-appointed House.