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Pensions Bill

I have not seen the PPI figures, although I shall certainly look at them. I asked the hon. Gentleman to tell me what he considered to be means-tested benefits, because I wanted to clarify his party’s approach to them. The Opposition have more serious aspirations to government now, so they—and the Liberal Democrats—must say what they understand by the phrase ““means testing?. Old people do not respond well to being told, ““This is good, but that is bad. You can have your personal accounts, but not the other benefits.? Some of them will say, ““Well, I might be auto-enrolled into the scheme, but I am going to opt out. To get by, I need X, Y and Z, and this, that and the other. Thanks very much, but this savings stuff is not for me.? It is important that we encourage people to make good self-provision, but we must also recognise that some people will need top-ups of various kinds. There is nothing shameful about that, as that is not means-testing: rather, it shows that the state is doing what it should do—that is, supporting people who make self-provision and making sure that people receive help according to their needs, with dignity and proper services in retirement.