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Pensions Bill

New clause 29 is specific, which is why I pursued the point about what a means-tested benefit is. Although I realise that it is a probing proposal, it states that the delivery authority would be wound up if"““in excess of 29 per cent. of the population over state pension age will, at the time of the introduction of personal accounts, be entitled to claim pension credit or another means-tested benefit?," but it does not say which means-tested benefits. The hon. Gentleman says it would include council tax benefit and housing benefit, as well as other benefits, but we need some clear indication of what the Opposition are talking about. Is the aim of proposal to probe exactly what the Government and the Opposition mean by means-tested benefits? On a similar point, the hon. Gentleman that his party got things terribly wrong over the winter fuel allowance. They said, ““This is something extra, but we actually want just one payment.? In fact, pensioners said, ““No, we want things that are appropriate to our needs?, which is why they like the winter fuel allowance. It would be wrong to say that because many people need top-up benefits in one form of another we should not have personal accounts. The accounts are important because they will give people a personal entitlement. However, if people need top-up payments to give them a decent standard of living in retirement, with particular forms of support related to their personal circumstances—be they carers, disabled or non-home owners—it is important that they can obtain that support. I am sure that my hon. Friend the Minister will say that we should not vote for the new clause—indeed, the hon. Member for Eastbourne may withdraw it. However, it is wrong for the Opposition to try to muddy the water and, in the process, make people worried about claiming the benefits they need to maintain their standard of living and to which they are fully entitled and the state is absolutely right to provide.