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National Security

Indeed, my Lords, and I expect nothing less. I am conscious that I have a short time to try to respond to some of the key points. I will respond further later. There is no question that the Government are attempting to spin anything; we seek a genuine consensus. Frankly, I do not care who came up with which idea. The difference for those in government is that we get a chance to look at ideas and how to implement them properly. If we can work together on these important issues it will be a credit to all noble Lords, to the Government, especially, and also to Parliament. That is what we should seek to do. I am extremely grateful for the general warmth with which both noble Lords received the proposals, with all the caveats that they put forward. I want to make it clear that we are talking about a unified border force, not a unified border police. We are saying that border control, Customs and UKvisas coming together. Special Branch, as I said, will have a role within that. I have figures on funding which I will send to the noble Lord. As my right honourable friend said in another place, the work of the noble Lord, Lord Stevens, is an important piece of work in trying to look at all the evidence and all the views. We will be keen to ensure that we do that. I, too, pay tribute to the noble and learned Lord, Lord Lloyd of Berwick, who I am sure will have much to say on these issues. I look forward very much to discussing those with him. On biometric data, my noble friend Lord West will not hesitate to tell the Government if he believes that there are different avenues to be explored. That is precisely why he is in your Lordships’ House and doing the enormously important work that he is undertaking. However, I also know that the importance of biometric data should not be underestimated. Such data have already proved incredibly valuable in the current work and I think that noble Lords should consider how to take the issue forward in that spirit. As noble Lords will know, since December we have had not only the Home Affairs Select Committee report but circumstances in which it has not been possible to deal with those about whom we are worried until the 26th or 27th of the 28 days. On their own, those are two good reasons why we should consider the issue again. There is no question of rushing legislation through. We have brought this forward today in a measured way so that, over the summer, noble Lords and Members of another place can consider the proposals and build what we hope will be a genuine consensus on taking these issues forward. I agree completely on the issue of what we have described as hearts and minds and on the importance of working with all institutions—particularly those in education and especially universities—to support vulnerable young people who may be at risk from those who would seek to change them into supporters or joiners of terrorist organisations. That is a core part of the work that will be going forward. I am sorry that the noble Lord, Lord McNally, does not wish to confer sainthood on the noble Lord, Lord Carlile, but I am sure that he will agree that it is right and proper—and I accept that the noble Lord, Lord Dholakia, has much to offer—to draw attention to the remarks of the noble Lord, Lord Carlile, because of the role that he has undertaken and performed so well.