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Public Accounts

Clearly, those who have less of a margin will suffer if problems occur, but it is equally the case that tax credits are more generous to those on lower incomes, so they provide a greater incentive for people to go into work. In my constituency surgeries, I have talked to many people who have been enabled to go back out to work and begin to earn a living by the extra help and assistance given by tax credits. As always, there are difficulties when systems go wrong, but the hon. Lady should not underestimate the amount of assistance that the tax credit system has given to many people. We must put these issues, important and difficult as they are, into perspective. My hon. Friend the Member for Great Grimsby (Mr. Mitchell) has left the Chamber, but he is clearly enjoying serving on the Public Accounts Committee. As all of us who serve on the Committee realise, it is one of the most enjoyable, effective things that a Back Bencher can do—certainly, that was my experience as an Opposition Member and a Government Back Bencher. Even after the many years that my hon. Friend has been in the House, I am glad that he has finally appreciated the finer things that can come from membership of the Public Accounts Committee. My hon. Friend's comments about politicians being the problem, and civil servants not standing up to politicians, were interesting. My experience of the tension between policy and practical enforcement in government is not that civil servants do not stand up to politicians, or that politicians try to force civil servants to do things that are undeliverable. It is more subtle than that. As a Minister, I have had many a robust conversation with civil servants and much prefer to be told what is actually happening. If a measure is not seen to be practicable, any Minister worth their salt would want to know about it, and I have been involved in many discussions about the practicality of doing things. If things go wrong, however, the matter does not always come to light at an appropriate level to prevent disaster. As the hon. Member for South Norfolk (Mr. Bacon) said, the work done by the Public Accounts Committee demonstrates what can be done to ensure that such things do not go wrong systemically. The hon. Member for Runnymede and Weybridge (Mr. Hammond) and the Chairman of the Committee were right to refer to the fact that the Public Accounts Committee praises as well as damns. That is a good innovation, as it shows that there is a good way of doing things, which tends to reduce risks and increase the chances of major projects being delivered. If we simply take the worst cases—which the Committee is right to look at—we can go into a downward spiral of thinking that everything is bad, nothing works and nothing can ever be delivered on time. But we must also remember that a great deal of good change is delivered, day in, day out, by the public sector, central Government Departments and local government, without the great splurge of publicity that can happen when something goes badly wrong. The hon. Member for South Norfolk asked a series of questions. I suspect that the most important one was about Lorenzo software. I will investigate the matter and write to him about it, because I will not pretend that I have his oversight of that piece of detail. I am happy to consider what he has said and to do what I can to provide him with an answer.