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Home Affairs and Justice

We have just heard a telling speech from the hon. and learned Member for Medway (Mr. Marshall-Andrews). My only qualification of it is that he could have made it with greater comfort from the Liberal Democrat Benches. In voting against the provisions of the Criminal Justice Act 2003, for example, he would have been in no danger of remonstrance from our Whips, because we were deeply opposed to those provisions—and are, indeed, to the plethora of multiplied criminal justice legislation to which he so rightly referred. [Interruption.] The hon. and learned Gentleman has a good record of voting against his own party, but it would be much more comfortable for him to vote as part of a party in which his position was ideologically acceptable. The hon. and learned Gentleman also touched on something to which I hope all parties will listen: the danger of the politicisation of the criminal justice argument. The corollary of the process that he described, in which new Labour sought to outflank the Tories, is that opponents have to be described as soft on crime and drugs. Most of the leaflets that I have seen that have accused the Liberal Democrats of being soft on crime or drugs have been produced by the Labour party, which was confusing opposition to the practice of the sinner with opposition to legislation that does not deal with the problem that it is supposed to address. All parties should listen to that message; perhaps the danger will come to us Liberal Democrats some day if we feel a need to retaliate as a party against being criticised as soft and we feel that other parties are not supporting sensible measures. However, everyone in politics must get away from dismissing civil liberties-based opposition as if it were support for conduct that civil libertarians believe either is not to be regulated by the state or is being addressed by measures that do such grievous harm to civil liberties that they should not be supported. I also want to turn to the interesting speech made by the right hon. and learned Member for Folkestone and Hythe (Mr. Howard). I am one of the four members of the Privy Council inquiry; I am working alongside three extremely good people and I shall not comment on or prejudge the inquiry's results. I hope that the Home Secretary does not do so either. I hope that she was misquoted, that—I am being charitable—the story that appeared in The Times compounded various things that she had said for different purposes and that neither she nor other Ministers have prejudged an inquiry that the Government set up. One of the reasons the inquiry was set up was that there have long been disagreements within Government and among Ministers on that very issue—including, I am sure, when the right hon. and learned Gentleman was in power. Today we have heard the case for the prosecution, but I am also obliged to listen to the case for the defence and examine the evidence produced by both. I look forward to our meeting the right hon. and learned Gentleman in the course of the inquiry; he will find that extremely helpful and valuable. I want to turn to some of the concerns of the Justice Committee, as we have now been renamed—as the Government rename their Departments, so the Select Committees are renamed: the former Constitutional Affairs Committee is becoming the Justice Committee, although it is still closely interested in constitutional affairs. Before I mention those concerns, I mention in passing a constituency concern that I felt when I read this part of the Queen's Speech:"““My Government will continue to work closely with the devolved administrations in the interests of all the people of the United Kingdom.””" I said, ““Oh yes? When will they start negotiating with the Scottish Government about pensioners' bus passes?”” The Government have rightly given themselves powers to ensure that, when it is introduced, a national bus pass can be made reciprocal with Scotland through a process of negotiation, but they have refused to embark on those negotiations. However, on the advice of the Prime Minister, the Queen uttered the words:"““My Government will continue to work closely with the devolved administrations””—" so I demand that Ministers here work closely with Scottish Government Ministers to ensure that, when the national bus pass is introduced, pensioners in my constituency can cross the border to their nearest shops or GP practice and that people on the Scottish side can come to Berwick or Wooler to do the same. I turn now to the wider constitutional issues. I genuinely welcome the interest that the Prime Minister has taken in the constitution and the principles that should underlie it. His speech last Thursday had a refreshing emphasis on principle, particularly that of liberty. What could be more welcome to me as a Liberal than his acceptance that all policies and legislation should be subject to a liberty test? That principle is very sound, but it should be expounded more systematically and rigorously—in respect of identity cards, for example. They create a less free atmosphere for the many without capturing the few to whom they are allegedly directed. The principle should be applied to another factor in the phenomenon described by the hon. and learned Member for Medway: the desire to legislate as a means of showing that the Government are doing something. There is a desire among Ministers to be seen to be doing something other than general politics. The door of what he described as the Willy Wonka room in the Home Office is opened when Ministers say, ““We must be seen to be doing something!”” Civil servants rush around to find them something to be seen to be doing. That is when the cupboards are cleared and the shelves ransacked for bits that can be made into legislation—to show that the Government are acting. The liberty test also needs to be applied in those circumstances.