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Pensions Bill

The hon. Gentleman will have to ask the Secretary of State that question, or the Minister who will wind up the debate. We know that people in this country have a propensity not to save. By any current standard, the local authorities pension scheme offers attractive benefits, yet local authorities struggle to get all their employees to enrol. We can understand why: we are talking about people who are earning some of the lowest wages. Most people earning £12,000 a year would rather not put aside money out of a tight household budget each week to save for retirement. What will happen? Whatever I say, or Ministers or other people say, in 2012—or whenever plans are now due to be launched—the same story will be written. Does anyone in this Chamber honestly believe that in 2012 ““Sun money”” or ““Mirror money”” or the money column in our local papers will not write stories saying that because of means-testing some people will lose out if they save in a personal account? Does anyone honestly believe that that will not happen? Does anyone honestly believe that some small employers faced by an unwelcome increase in their wage costs will not quietly show those stories to their employees? Does anyone honestly believe that employees generally will not chat about these issues in the pub or the sandwich queue? Does anyone honestly believe that the number of people who decide to opt out of personal accounts will not increase as a result, with the consequence that future generations and future Governments will have to bear a much larger cost for means-tested benefits than they would have done had these reforms worked as intended? I simply do not understand why Ministers are behaving like ostriches with their head in the sand. Having a proper debate about solving the problem would not undermine the consensus; it would strengthen it. Ministers seem convinced that providing generic advice to potential savers will do the job, but how much real advice do they think they can provide to people from a low-cost product that will have to pay off the start-up costs of the first years of its operation and that will be at the lowest possible end of affordability within the pensions market? The Minister asks what we should do. Many alternatives have been suggested to the Government. Two detailed approaches have been produced by the Pensions Policy Institute, looking at potential options such as raising the limit for trivial commutation. I have suggested to Ministers—it is only a suggestion and I would happily talk privately to them about it—that we might be able to offer those who lose out some form of money-back guarantee, perhaps through a higher lump-sum entitlement. However, Ministers do much to undermine the concept of consensus by not saying in response, ““That's an interesting idea; we'll take a look at it””; instead, they accuse us of making uncosted commitments and coming up with ideas without foundation. They do not seem to understand that nobody except them has the ability to work all this through in detail—not Her Majesty's Opposition, not the Liberal Democrats, not the right hon. Member for Birkenhead (Mr. Field), not the PPI, not the CBI, not the Association of British Insurers. Only the Secretary of State and the Minister have access to the necessary modelling, data and information to be able to look properly at the options—to be able to look at how much it would cost us to do nothing and how much it would save us to do something. Will the Secretary of State carry out a proper public assessment of the available options? Will he look at all the alternatives that have been suggested and what they will cost? Will he look at the cost implications of higher or lower levels of take-up, and the impact on the cost of means-tested benefits in the future? Will he do that work, because he has the teams of people to do it—I do not have them, and neither do the Liberal Democrats? After he has done that work, will he lay a paper before this House? We could then have private and public meetings; let us discuss these issues and between us try to work out a solution. The Secretary of State cannot refuse to have such discussions and to provide access to his databases and to allow all of us to look at the options, and then accuse us of undermining the consensus; that is not good enough. Means-testing is not the only area where we are unconvinced that the Government have got things right yet.