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Pensions Bill

Let me just finish dealing with the hon. Member for Epsom and Ewell; I may then deal with the hon. Gentleman. The hon. Member for Epsom and Ewell and his colleagues kept talking about the Government's models. The Government do have a computer system that forecasts pensioner incomes up to 2050, but it has taken on almost mythic status in the interventions we have heard from the Opposition during the course of the debate. They told us that they cannot come up with any proposals because they do not have access to the computer. Our system is one of a range of models we use to tell us how people might end up in 2050 with regard to pension credit. It does not model behavioural changes arising from policy decisions and, to the best of my knowledge, the Pensions Policy Institute one does not either. My predecessor, my right hon. Friend the Member for Stalybridge and Hyde (James Purnell), discussed making the Department's models available to the Opposition so that they could model their proposals, and neither party has taken us up on that offer. The Opposition can make their proposals; we are happy to run them through the system. They could see the results and so could we.