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Children and Young Persons Bill [HL]

Although I agree absolutely with my noble friend Lord Ramsbotham, that was not the point that I was going to make at this moment, as we will come to that later. I simply wanted to point out that if we include the amendment, we should have a whole list of other people in the Bill with whom there should be co-operation. I do not think that we should single out one group. However, they need to be included in the Working Together document and arrangements, with which I am not absolutely up to-date these days, but which I believe talk about working together with the voluntary and private sectors. No doubt private practices could be properly included. I think that it has enshrined all of those groups since 2006 and before and, I hope, will continue to do so. I should like to ask the Minister a question that arose about TUPE, although I did not think that I was going to speak about it because I did not think that I had anything to say. The Minister’s answer caused me some concern, which relates to Working Together. In his reply, he mentioned that groups of social workers might well be transferred to private practices, or the new pilots. I had never conceptualised it like that; perhaps I need to read the document again. I had assumed that private or voluntary organisations would set up those practices and that people would apply for posts in them, so that their conditions of service would be set by whichever organisation. TUPE would not necessarily occur unless they were seconded from the local authority, which is not beyond the bounds of innovation and has happened in other voluntary and private organisations. I am sorry to go back to that, but it caused me some concern, because it has implications for how the whole programme works.