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Criminal Justice and Immigration Bill

My Lords, I also particularly support Amendment No. 86 and the principle behind it. I respectfully endorse everything that the noble Lord, Lord Thomas of Gresford, has just said. It is important to bear in mind that under new sub-paragraph (3B) proposed by the noble Earl, Lord Onslow, and the noble Lord, Lord Ramsbotham, there will be cases where it is not necessary to have legal aid. There will be a large number of road traffic offences—even for those well under the age of 17—and criminal damage offences, particularly graffiti, and there may be other minor offences for which children will find themselves before the youth court. We are really looking at the disadvantaged minority that the noble Lord, Lord Judd, and, indeed, the noble Earl, Lord Onslow, were dealing with, who are probably facing the more serious offences whereby he or she—particularly he—is likely to be seriously disadvantaged if there is no one to speak for them. I particularly have in mind children in care. A large number of children who appear in the youth court are also going through care proceedings. They do not have parents to look after them. They will almost certainly be excluded from school. They have a succession of social workers, who may be short-term. They do not have advisers, although under the children Bill, which recently had its Third Reading, there will be advisers; they may or may not be in place at the moment. They may not have a single person who matters to them to whom they can go. But the one thing they are entitled to is representation in court in those sorts of cases which matter. The noble Lord, Lord Thomas of Gresford, has reminded us that the Human Rights Act makes that a right. That is the sort of child about whom the noble Earl, Lord Onslow, was really talking in moving the amendment. We should particularly look at Amendment No. 86.