---

Local Transport Bill [Lords]

Demographic changes have occurred in other countries as well. There are fantastic successes in bus usage in other European countries. As a matter of fact, demographic changes have occurred in Brighton and Hove, as the hon. Member for Chipping Barnet said, and we are seeing success there. Demographic changes have occurred in London, and there are increases in ridership there. The implication of the hon. Gentleman's intervention is that when people get rich, they stop using buses. That is not true at all—or at least it should not be. I can tell him that I certainly use buses, as are more and more people. He seems to be repeating Mrs. Thatcher's view that people who are successful do not use buses and people who do use buses are failures.