---

Pensions Bill

Now that we have had the opportunity to hear the noble Baroness’s and the Government’s amendments, may I briefly say what the attitude of those on these Benches is about this? I quite agree with the noble Baroness that there should be no discrimination between large incorporated businesses and small individual employers, but it struck me that the government amendments deal with that fairly. I have heard what the Minister has had to say, and I think it is reasonable that there is ultimately a criminal sanction of last resort. By saying that, I in no way mean that most employers are trying to evade their responsibilities. I simply mean that we all understand—the noble Baroness with her great experience in accountancy will know this—that a small number of rogue employers do not play by the rules and that, if you think about it, an employer who persistently refuses to comply is ultimately stealing the employees’ money by not having the money in the pension scheme that should be there. With the Minister’s assurances, it is reasonable for there ultimately to be a criminal sanction.