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Pensions Bill

I have listened very carefully, but I cannot pretend that I have understood every word of what has been said. I certainly get a very strong message on Amendment No. 111, which was so ably moved by the noble Baroness, Lady Hollis. What comes over to me is that certainly we do not want to have competition for the poor old insurance industry in respect of large sums of money, which of course should go to the market and get the best price. It is clear that we are not talking about those. I hope that personal account pots will be attractive to women who probably would not be saving at all but for them. Certainly, if one looks at the older woman who has had far less opportunity to save, and we look at why the women are probably poorer—because they have been saving the state huge sums of money in their caring capacity—surely we should to a certain extent look at this as compensation. It has been strongly stressed that there is a need for flexibility, which has come up on many amendments. In this area, it is surely absolutely right that there should be the possibility of paying in some lump sum that one might inherit, or if a husband gets an extra windfall that he is prepared for it to go to his partner’s pension. As Which? has said, if above all flexibility is what is needed and is seen as important by the people who go to Which?—my goodness, it has so much basic experience of this group of people that it really knows what it is talking about—surely we should back the approach of the noble Baroness, Lady Hollis. It may not be perfect, and she has admitted that nearly all the amendments are probing amendments. I, too, have some sympathy with what I think my noble friend Lady Greengross is trying to achieve. I hope that the Government will look very carefully at allowing greater sums of money—be they £10,000 or £15,000 or as high as £50,000—if that is not going to get everyone in a state again about doing down the poor old insurance industry. I am very much one of the usual suspects here.