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Defence Policy

Indeed; my hon. Friend is exactly correct. Having clearly definable benchmarks is essential to show what progress we are making. There are too many simplifications. People mention ““talking to the Taliban””, but who do they think the Taliban are—a club with a membership? They are a changing number of people who will move around the border and change allegiances and sides at different times. We have to be realistic about what we are dealing with. If any country should understand from its own history that we have to work with what we get, not what we want, if our mission is to succeed, it should be the United Kingdom. We need to consider that. We have seen success elsewhere. Like the Secretary of State, I have recently returned from Iraq. I wandered around the centre of Basra without body armour or a helmet. We were held up as we approached the city because so many people were going shopping with their families that there was a traffic jam. Such a scene would have been unthinkable a relatively short time ago. It is possible to bring change. All those who were against the intervention in Iraq might want to go to Basra and see what difference that intervention has made. People there now not only have a say in determining the future of their own country and taking control of their own destiny, but live in an infinitely improved security environment. They do not even talk about security as one of the issues; they talk about employment, electricity and water because the terms of debate have fundamentally changed as a consequence of military action. We should remember that whatever people say about more recent events in Basra, the commitment of our armed forces to the coalition of the willing in Iraq has made a change for people in that country. Once in a while, I would like those who were against the war in Iraq to recognise that some good things have now come out of it for the ordinary people there, rather than only wanting to see the downside. Clearly, our mission in Iraq is changing. During my last visit, I spoke to General Mohammed as well as political figures. The general made it clear that the British period of military operations is coming to an end and that it is time for our troops to come home whenever that is possible. I still think that it would be a profound mistake to produce a timetable for the withdrawal of our troops from Iraq, but we can now clearly see that it is going to happen sooner rather than later. It will depend on conditions on the ground and, to some extent, on the incoming American Administration. It is possible that the current overstretch might be diminished, at least in some small way, but that will depend on what decision the Government take on future deployments to Afghanistan. The Iraqi people find themselves, at least in one respect, more fortunate than ourselves, in that their Government have a fiscal surplus of some $72 billion this year, predicted to be $90 billion next year. It is astonishing that there is no representative from the Department for Business, Enterprise and Regulatory Reform in Baghdad, because contracts for reconstruction are being, and will be, picked up by the Americans, the Germans, the French and the Russians. Given our commitment to Iraq, it would be unthinkable were we not to have appropriate representation in Baghdad to ensure that British companies get their fair share of the reconstruction contracts. [Interruption.] A personal visit from the Secretary of State might indeed be welcomed on both sides of the geographical divide. One thing that the Secretary of State did not mention—I hope that the Minister will do so when he winds up—was what has happened with Russia. Since our most recent defence debates, we have seen the events in Georgia, where Russian intentions may not be benign, to put it mildly. Russian forces inside the sovereign territory of Georgia could now cut off Caspian oil and gas supplies to the west within hours. We know about Russia's $208 billion dollar military build-up, paid for under the stabilisation fund, and its apparent intentions in the Baltic, the Mediterranean and the Arctic. In a defence debate of this nature, we should hear about how the Government perceive what may be an increasing threat from Russia.