---

Public Accounts

I appreciate the Exchequer Secretary's remarks, which are welcome. Being responsible for overview and able to initiate change in systems is important. However, as I said at the beginning of my remarks, initiating change once it has been identified is dreadfully slow. I intervened on my hon. Friend the Member for Gainsborough to mention in-service training for civil servants. For a long time, schemes have existed whereby civil servants go to work in industry, and people in industry work in the civil service. That is a good idea but, by itself, it is not the answer. The PAC has been concerned about a matter that is now being rigorously addressed—the lack of accounting qualifications among senior personnel in Departments, not least among accounting officers. It seems so fundamental that one wonders why we did not realise that it was a genuine problem some years ago. It is perhaps wrong to blame civil servants who have been asked to carry out a specific task for which they have not got the experience and qualifications, when it all goes wrong. I am not saying for one minute that they should not be rewarded for good work or that there should not be recriminations if people foul up, as in any other walk of life. However, the Government need to look at the changing skills that are required of the civil service and incorporate more of them into the initial training, particularly for those who enter through the fast-track system and whom one hopes will later become our senior civil servants. They also need to look at in-service training to ensure that we do not ask people to do jobs for which they are not equipped. When that happens, it is not uncommon for people not to know who is in charge. I am always nervous when I look at a situation and find it hard to identify who is in charge.