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Postal Services Bill [HL]

I shall speak also to Amendments 36 and 38. I expect all Members of the Committee have read the summary and background to Part 2 in the Explanatory Notes. It explains that this part gives power to the Secretary of State to remove the historic pension liabilities of the Royal Mail pension plan from the Royal Mail and take them into government. In plain and simple terms it proposes that the deficit will become the responsibility of the Government. People like me think that it was always the responsibility of the Government, as the employer in the final stage. No doubt much will be made of what this means and I hope during the passage of this Bill to ask noble Lords to consider a number of points to which reference should be made and placed on the record of the House about the pension deficit. But that perhaps is for another day. I shall also ask a number of questions that require responses from the Secretary of State before we reach final decisions on this part. In my view, it is essential that the problems of the deficit are not laid at the door of the women and men who are members of the present superannuation arrangements; that is, post men and women, and others who work for Royal Mail. It is no fault of theirs that the pension scheme is in the state that it is and the deficit is so high. At the same time as proposing that responsibility for the deficit is transferred from the employer to the Government, this part of the proposed legislation seeks to establish a new statutory scheme, which may be used to provide benefits to certain members of the Royal Mail pension plan. It suggests that it transfers rights and removes liabilities from the Royal Mail pension plan. It provides the means for transferring Royal Mail pension plan assets to the Government, to divide the Royal Mail pension plan into sections and to allocate assets and liabilities between those sections. My amendments concern mainly the definitions that deal with issues such as "qualifying members" of the Royal Mail pension plan, qualifying time, qualifying accrued rights and survivors’ benefits. As regards the qualifying member, Amendment No 34 proposes that from "person" in line 31 to the end of line 33 should be left out and replaced with, ""who, immediately before the qualifying time, is entitled or contingently or prospectively entitled to benefits under the RMPP"." There are two issues here. The first is that of picking and choosing. All potential beneficiaries of the Royal Mail pension plan should be covered—I repeat, all of them. That includes beneficiaries who are not members and employees who could join but have not yet done so. As the Bill is drafted, the Secretary of State could include some but exclude others. The other issue is that of timing. In Amendment 36 I suggest that the words from "before" to the end of line 35 be left out. The time for the division of assets and liabilities can be retrospective or prospective. If the order is retrospective, members who join the Royal Mail pension plan between the effective date of the order and the date when the order is actually made must be included. If it is prospective, members who transfer out between the date when the order is made, and lump sum death benefits paid between the date that the order takes effect and the date when it is made, should be excluded. It follows that the qualifying time should therefore be defined at the moment when the order dividing the assets of the Royal Mail pension plan is made. Amendment 38 concerns survivors’ benefits, and seeks to delete paragraph (c). This is covered in the definition of a qualifying member. I conclude these remarks with a question. Can I ask the Secretary of State what advantages for the company or its staff are achieved by deleting these lines? I am sure everyone agrees that these benefits are very precious to people, and I should like an answer to that question. I beg to move.