---

Apprenticeships, Skills, Children and Learning Bill

If somebody is capable of providing the answer to that question, we will do so. This debate is, I believe, still missing the main point. The main point for an apprentice is whether they have something to demonstrate that they have been through a properly validated and accredited apprenticeship programme. Surely that is the main point. Are we seriously saying that, today, anybody who employs someone does not ask them who their previous employer was and where they undertook their courses of study? It seems to me that it is an inherent part of any application for employment. That information is not going to be concealed from any potential employers, so it has nothing to do with openness and transparency. The core of this argument is whether we want an apprenticeship certificate— regardless of the FE college or training provider—to demonstrate that the individual has the core competencies to carry out the type of work. If I have qualified in electrical work or plumbing, the employer wants to see that I have been through that apprenticeship framework and have a certificate, properly validated by the particular sector skills council. The additional information is available, if that is what the employer feels is most important. I accept the point of the noble Viscount, Lord Eccles, about knowing where they did their workplace experience and who their previous employer was. That is normal employment practice. It does not have to be on the apprenticeship certificate. I give way.