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Equality Bill

My Lords, nobody could reply to the noble and learned Lord properly after such a wide-ranging speech, and at this hour, and I will not attempt to do so. However, perhaps I could just explain extremely briefly why I respectfully disagree with him about his entire approach. It is an approach which I believe will be contrary both to European Union and European Human Rights Convention law on equality. It is of course the case that freedom of conscience, religion and belief are as important as human rights as the principle of equal treatment without discrimination, and that both have to be accommodated within our legislation. That is entirely the case and therefore when we come later on to consider the position of the churches I am sympathetic to recognising that we should render unto Caesar only those things which should be rendered unto Caesar, and unto God those that should be rendered unto God. Therefore we should do nothing which would violate the basic tenets of the Christian or other churches in this area, provided that they are shown to be really necessary for their purpose. So we can leave that entirely on one side. However the amendment which the noble and learned Lord puts forward is a blanket exception which, if it were to be accepted, would create a huge loophole in the whole of our discrimination law. It would mean presumably, for example, that a person could refuse to serve a gay person or a Muslim because they had a conscientious objection to doing so. I know that is not what is intended—