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Workplace Temperatures

That is exactly what has resulted in this debate. We know from our surveys that there is a problem out there. At the same time, however, we now know that the HSE is not monitoring it in any detail and we also know that it is not being addressed by legal action. Either our surveys are all wrong and people are working in ideal conditions across every sector of industry, or the regulations are wrong because they are not being implemented or cannot be implemented because of their vagueness and at times—I must say—their vacuousness. So what has come as a result of all the work that we—the bakers union and other unions, and the trade union group in Parliament—have put in, and as a result of the responses that we have had to our parliamentary questions? Well, what has happened is a major campaign in the last few years, which has taken up the pace during the last year in particular. I pay tribute to the work that has been undertaken by the bakers union itself. In the last year, the trade union group in Parliament wrote to my hon. Friend Lord McKenzie of Luton, who I must say has been nothing but helpful on this issue; he has made himself available for meeting after meeting to try to help to resolve this problem. My hon. Friend the Member for Luton, North placed an early-day motion before Parliament on a couple of occasions, which received 42 signatures initially and that number is building. We then wrote to my right hon. Friend the Member for Stalybridge and Hyde (James Purnell), the former Secretary of State for Work and Pensions. I see that he is now retiring from Parliament, which I regret because he was very helpful on this issue. He wrote to the HSE and asked it to review the current legislation and guidance. That review was undertaken and co-ordinated by a Mr. Ray Kemp; indeed he is Professor Ray Kemp. May I say that some concerns have been raised about the nature of that review? I would welcome some response from the HSE about how it appointed the individual who undertook that review. I just mention this point; I do not want to undermine people's reputations in any way, or anything like that. However, I am anxious. I saw on Mr. Kemp's website that he advertises himself as someone who""has also directed large scale EIAs"—" environmental impact assessments—""and public consultations in support of planning applications"." Those planning applications have included""oil and gas processing plant, waste disposal facilities, incinerators, airport expansion"." I have a slight anxiety about someone who advertises themselves as being "in support of" planning applications rather than as someone who just independently assesses those applications. However, I will leave that point for other Members to consider and I would welcome a response from the HSE about its appointment procedures. Anyway, what came out of that review was basically a number of stakeholder meetings. What was interesting about those stakeholder meetings, involving both sides of industry, was that although no consensus was reached, a majority of those stakeholders—60 per cent. of them—concurred with the view that the current regulations were confused and not satisfactory, and that there was a need for change. All of us have been in those situations and it is difficult, particularly when there are both sides of industry there, to get absolute consensus. However, to have a majority of 60 per cent. saying that something needs to be done and that there needs to be clarity about the new processes and the new regulations is quite significant, I think. Unfortunately, the review came out with—well, I give Mr. Kemp's conclusions:""On balance, it is suggested that the workplace temperatures issue is not one that justifies active regulatory intervention but rather improved joint working between all parties to the issue—government, Trades Unions and Employers. This best reflects the new HSE Strategy for the Health & Safety of Great Britain"." As a minimum, he recommends that amendments to the guidance""should be pursued through joint working and tripartite discussions"." Unfortunately, that is where we have been for a number of years and it is a system that has not worked. I find that the arguments that Mr. Kemp seems to have put about are not just unconvincing but almost specious in part.