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Energy: Draft National Policy Statement for Nuclear Power Generation (EN-6)

My Lords, first, I apologise for not being here for all the debate—I had to present a report to the EU Committee at four o’clock. Perhaps I may start with a personal observation. The noble Lord, Lord Reay, spent quite some time rubbishing the Met Office. It is now based in Exeter and is an important part of the economy. It is a major centre of British and global expertise in a number of areas. It is highly respected. It certainly went too far in its seasonal weather forecasts, which were wrong, but it does not deserve its description in the noble Lord’s speech. I would strongly defend that body. During the previous NPS debate, I had to say, as a Liberal Democrat, that as we did not really believe in the IPC, to a degree I had a rather different view. As regards this debate, as Liberal Democrats do not believe in nuclear power, I suppose that I am doubly irrelevant. I can see the noble Lord, Lord Woolmer, pointing to the empty chair that had been occupied by my noble friend Lord Maclennan. I agree that some Members on the Liberal Democrat Benches are in favour of nuclear power and it would be wrong to suggest otherwise. We see a future that is built around renewables and carbon capture and storage, with a particular emphasis on energy efficiency. After researching and considering the subject of this debate, we do not have any real problem with it. First, there is the example of recent nuclear developments in Finland. The issue is similar to that of nuclear fusion, about which it is always said that it will be the technology of 50 years’ time—it is always 50 years’ time. It always seems to be the case that the nuclear power station in Finland will be completed in four years’ time. At the moment it is 75 per cent ahead of its budget. When the nuclear industry has been relatively successful in this country, there has been no real competition in the market. We had the Central Electricity Generating Board. Costs could be put out in an average fashion and consumers accepted them, because that was how it worked. We no longer have that lack of a market, and I welcome it; we have competition in the energy fields. However, there is a situation that I regret. The carbon price is some €12, whereas, if nuclear power is to make its way in any sense commercially, it probably needs to be around €50. Then there is international competition. Not only do we have difficulty around skills but it will be difficult to attract capital in capital formation or equity. Then there is the amount of debt that is needed and the raw materials required, too. The United States example has been mentioned, but the only way in which that programme is moving forward is by loan guarantee. Originally, the project there was expected to have some 50 per cent loans against 50 per cent equity; it will now be pretty well 100 per cent or at least 80 per cent loans. So there is a public guarantee and subsidy for the large majority of those construction costs. In a way, therefore, as a Liberal Democrat perhaps I need not be concerned—except to say that we put the emphasis and energies in the wrong places. However, as the Minister said, we are not here to debate that at the moment; we are here to look at this statement. I found a number of interesting things. One was in the language on page 6, in the whole framework of what we are doing here. The last bullet point on the page says: ""The IPC should start its examination of development consent applications for new nuclear power stations on the basis that need has been demonstrated and should give this need, and the benefits of meeting it, substantial weight in determining the applications"." I take that as a positive point, in that it should do that but it does not have to. That may rather broaden the scope of the IPC beyond what I expected. I also took on board the point about tsunamis, although that may be something that we need not worry about too much. We also need not worry about nuclear power stations generating under 15 megawatts. On the Tamar, we have the old decommissioned nuclear reactors of submarines; perhaps we could use those for that. But that is clearly not very relevant to this. There is one thing that has come to me through this that I genuinely cannot understand. What is the point of the IPC in this area and this document? What does it actually do? It is clear that the IPC is not just spatial, when other such bodies are not; it is site-specific. We do not have an IPC that looks at potential sites and decides which can be nuclear facilities; that is already done. Indeed, the document excludes the IPC from specifically looking at applications for sites beyond these 10. As the Minister said, the Government have already considered a further three and have decided that those should not be considered at present. It is not the role of the IPC to look at where nuclear sites should be, and it is not the role of this document to do that either. That is very much the role of the Government and Secretary of State. I asked the same question of the Minister on the previous occasion. When and under what circumstances is the IPC able to say no? I see no circumstances under which there can be any answer but yes. The applicant comes through the door of the commission and says, "I have a nuclear application". The question is "Where?". The applicant mentions one of the 10 sites, and that is it. I do not understand what else can be said except that there are a couple of other things that the commission can look at. On page 18 is the heading, "Consideration of good design", so the IPC can say whether the nuclear power station should be art deco, neo-Georgian or perhaps classical. That is great. However, I do not see why the local authority could not do that. It would not get in the way of the strategic planning for the country. It could also look at a number of "siting criteria"—the phrase used on page 26—and move the deckchairs a little in terms of where the facilities are and how they are laid out. I see no reason why, even given the reason why we have these planning commissions, a local authority should not be able to do that. So why this document and this commission around nuclear? As far as I can see, everything has already been decided. It is in the power of the Secretary of State. The other issue of particular concern is nuclear waste. The document is very honest and illuminating about it. It states: ""The Government has therefore not set a fixed delivery timetable"," for nuclear waste. We know why. It is because they cannot get agreement on it and cannot deliver a strategy or a location for nuclear waste. The document goes on, ""but in planning the implementation of the national policy of geological disposal, the NDA has assessed that a UK facility could be operational for the disposal of legacy ILW by about 2040"." I suppose that is a start—it is 30 years ahead—but it goes on, ""with legacy HLW/spent fuel emplacement beginning around 2075"." That is 65 years ahead of where we are at present, but the document then goes on: ""Disposal of legacy waste is estimated to be completed by around 2130"." We are looking 120 years ahead in this document. Many of us who went through the Climate Change Bill were rather concerned—although we thought it right to do so—about looking at targets for 2050, when I will be 98, but here we go to 2130. Finally, the document states: ""It is possible to envisage a scenario in which onsite interim storage might be required for around 160 years"." I find that very concerning. We have here something that pretends to be a national planning statement about nuclear power but is actually about power generation. That is absolutely accurate: it is the Draft National Policy Statement for Nuclear Power Generation. What it shows, admits and opens out completely is an utter inability to complete the supply chain in terms of where the waste from generation will be dealt with. That is a great concern. I do not understand where this gets us. I welcome the spatial element of the report, which the other reports do not have—I find that strange—but it goes from nothing to micro: the appendices to the report show where the boundaries will be. Finally, the document is site-specific. We have only 10 sites in total. Another three were rejected, and it is unlikely that others will come up in a short time. Given the limited ownership of these sites and the limited ability to finance nuclear power, what will happen if these companies are unable to develop the sites themselves but wish to sit on them for appreciation? Will we be held to ransom because we have only 10 sites that are controlled by even fewer corporate organisations?